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SoundCloud has banned VPN access

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Re: SoundCloud has banned VPN access

#31

Post by aaomidi »

itake wrote: post #8
protocolture wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GEOIP providers often sell a database of known VPN/Proxy endpoints. They take the approach of shoot first, ask questions later. Using one of these databases bans a lot of legitimate ip addresses that have seen been the source of known VPN or proxy traffic. Its not perfect ofc, but its not meant to be. Its usually just used as a safety blanket for geoblocked intellectual property, like netflix.

I connect to my residential ISP in the USA via VPN all the time and have never had issues with being blocked for VPN use. Maybe they mean commercial VPN providers that run on the cloud?

https://ipinfo.io/what-is-my-ip

Here’s one database to check.

Re: SoundCloud has banned VPN access

#33

Post by zinekeller »

polski-g wrote: post #27
majorchord wrote: post #3

You can't just blanket block all VPN access, that's not how the internet works... they could pick some common/well-known providers of VPN services and block their IPs/ASN/etc., but you can't just flip a switch and make all forms of VPN/proxy stop working, as there's no way to tell with certainty that someone is using one.

MTU detection is the easiest one. Sucks for people with ISPs that don't do 1500 bytes but those are rare.

looks at Japan, UK (OpenReach), and a lot of other places still using PPPoE (on fiber!) for complicated reasons

Re: SoundCloud has banned VPN access

#34

Post by zinekeller »

protocolture wrote: post #13
itake wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I connect to my residential ISP in the USA via VPN all the time and have never had issues with being blocked for VPN use. Maybe they mean commercial VPN providers that run on the cloud?

>I connect to my residential ISP in the USA via VPN all the time and have never had issues with being blocked for VPN use. Bit of a non sequitur, you would have to outline your entire usage pattern to even submit that as N=1. GEOIP providers dont sit on your home network. They do accept data from third parties, and are themselves (likely) subscribed to other IP addressing lists. Mostly they are a data aggregator, and…

There is even a single company in the unique position to actually tell where exactly(-ish, considering CGNAT exists) where an IP address is located: Google. They do use the "enhanced location" data on Android devices to pinpoint where an IP is, so a single Android device can actually change fings for Google (and YouTube).

Re: SoundCloud has banned VPN access

#35

Post by makeitdouble »

majorchord wrote: post #3

You can't just blanket block all VPN access, that's not how the internet works... they could pick some common/well-known providers of VPN services and block their IPs/ASN/etc., but you can't just flip a switch and make all forms of VPN/proxy stop working, as there's no way to tell with certainty that someone is using one.

As long there isn't a critical risk, these kind of business decisions won't aim for certainity.

They probably assume some amount of collateral damage, a small number of VPN users still flying under the radar, the bulk of VPN users being properly targeted, and the vast majority of users not noticing anything.

Re: SoundCloud has banned VPN access

#36

Post by delusional »

oefrha wrote: post #11
itake wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I connect to my residential ISP in the USA via VPN all the time and have never had issues with being blocked for VPN use. Maybe they mean commercial VPN providers that run on the cloud?

[flagged]

The exhausting "well actually" masks a corrosive argument, that if you can't enforce the rules in a rigid and rigorous fashion, the rule is fiat.

It's not that he doesn't know the difference. He's making the argument that since there's no _technical_ difference there can be no legal difference.

Re: SoundCloud has banned VPN access

#37

Post by positr0n »

fragmede wrote: post #12
oefrha wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Tailscale is really not that hard to set up. There's an Apple TV app for it, even. And who doesn't have some friend in another state or country that would like an Apple TV?

I live a thousand miles from another country. No I don't have friends in another country and I don't even know anyone with friends in another country except immigrants or spouses of immigrants.

Re: SoundCloud has banned VPN access

#38

Post by tallytarik »

majorchord wrote: post #3

You can't just blanket block all VPN access, that's not how the internet works... they could pick some common/well-known providers of VPN services and block their IPs/ASN/etc., but you can't just flip a switch and make all forms of VPN/proxy stop working, as there's no way to tell with certainty that someone is using one.

There are plenty of VPN and proxy detection services, either as a service (API) or downloadable database, which are surprisingly comprehensive. Disclaimer: I’ve run one since 2017. Years on, our primary data source is literally holding dozens of subscriptions to every commercial provider we can find, and enumerating the exit node IP addresses they use.

There are also other methods, like using zmap/zgrab to probe for servers that respond to VPN software handshakes, which can in theory be run against the entire IP space. (this also highlights non-commercial VPNs which are not generally the target of our detection, so we use this sparingly)

It will never cover every VPN or proxy in existence, but it gets pretty close.

Re: SoundCloud has banned VPN access

#39

Post by zinekeller »

delusional wrote: post #36
oefrha wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The exhausting "well actually" masks a corrosive argument, that if you can't enforce the rules in a rigid and rigorous fashion, the rule is fiat. It's not that he doesn't know the difference. He's making the argument that since there's no _technical_ difference there can be no legal difference.

And this is rather an anemic take. The (proposed) UK VPN ban that was recently discussed here have a definition on what exactly is a "VPN" for the purposes of the ban (basically "VPNs generally advertised to normal consumers") but a lot simply shouted "ssh go brr" (and definitely did not read the proposed law). These "let's go techical" thinking never flies with the poeple who makes such legislation, and in (probably unpopular!) opinion we should talk to them in terms that they can understand. Yes, we don't want that law, but having a purist take would probably alienate regular people.

It doesn't really matter that a single person has found a loophole because many, many other people don't have such a luxury, and that's what the lawmakers are aiming for.

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