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Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

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Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#31

Post by al_borland »

glitchc wrote: post #24
markbao wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

McDonald’s is an interesting example because they’re increasingly replacing cashiers with kiosks. Robotics/LLMs seem to have diminishing returns compared to that in the order taking realm.

Sure, but not the kitchen staff, which is where the robotics dream is supposed to take you.

I watched a show over 20 years ago that showed a fully automated robotic kitchen at McDonalds. I can only assumed they have continued to evolved it and perfect it as the technology has improved. I think it’s simply a question of when it hits the tipping point on cost.

There may also be an issue with logistics when it comes to making sure the machines keep running if there is a problem. They can barely keep the ice cream machines running.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#32

Post by cmckn »

markus_zhang wrote: post #25

I had a wonderful retro futuristic dream about an automated Costco warehouse a few weeks ago. It was one of the less weird dreams so I still remember it clearly. Basically, each section is like a closed areas with some windows. Customers order at the computers by the windows and flash their membership cards. Robots glide left and right to move 10 samples to the customer, in an arm with rotating clips. Customers can p…

Sounds like a lot of waiting around, versus just browsing the aisles. Maybe today’s consumers need to rediscover cash-and-carry, though.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#33

Post by whynotmaybe »

markus_zhang wrote: post #25

I had a wonderful retro futuristic dream about an automated Costco warehouse a few weeks ago. It was one of the less weird dreams so I still remember it clearly. Basically, each section is like a closed areas with some windows. Customers order at the computers by the windows and flash their membership cards. Robots glide left and right to move 10 samples to the customer, in an arm with rotating clips. Customers can p…

Something like this?

https://www.untappedcities.com/automats-cafeterias-nyc/

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#34

Post by danpalmer »

This is a failure of business model and logistics, not a failure of the robotics.

> Fenyo added that Kroger’s decision to locate the Ocado centers outside of cities turned out to be a key flaw.

They over-spent on automating low-volume FCs. You could draw comparisons to Amdahl's law, they optimised the bit that wasn't the issue, the real issue was delivery distances and times.

Ocado has had good success with the robotics approach in the UK, because the UK is very high density compared to a lot of the US. Plus Ocado put a lot of work into creating good delivery routes, whereas it sounds like that wasn't a component of the automation stack that Kroger bought.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#35

Post by gilbetron »

liquidise wrote: post #5

Good news for blue collar workers, tough for investors. The bean-counting dream of LLM's and Robotics remains, but until ChatGPT is placing your order at Mcdonalds drive-thrus and Amazon is laying off warehouse associates en masse, i'd say that last 5% is still taking 95% of the time.

Taco Bell by us has AI order taking and it is amazing. Quick, always has been getting it correct, and easy to understand. Granted, it's probably very abusable, but for someone just wanting to put in a quick order it is way better than a person.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#36

Post by gedy »

markbao wrote: post #16
liquidise wrote: post #5

Good news for blue collar workers, tough for investors. The bean-counting dream of LLM's and Robotics remains, but until ChatGPT is placing your order at Mcdonalds drive-thrus and Amazon is laying off warehouse associates en masse, i'd say that last 5% is still taking 95% of the time.

McDonald’s is an interesting example because they’re increasingly replacing cashiers with kiosks. Robotics/LLMs seem to have diminishing returns compared to that in the order taking realm.

I don't know what they are thinking, the kiosks are not cheap to install or maintain, they are buggy, and they've put me off from going into McDs anymore. The In-N-Out nearby is cheaper, friendlier with plenty of employees working, (and better quality), so not sure what McD's end game is here.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#37

Post by markus_zhang »

cmckn wrote: post #32
markus_zhang wrote: post #25

I had a wonderful retro futuristic dream about an automated Costco warehouse a few weeks ago. It was one of the less weird dreams so I still remember it clearly. Basically, each section is like a closed areas with some windows. Customers order at the computers by the windows and flash their membership cards. Robots glide left and right to move 10 samples to the customer, in an arm with rotating clips. Customers can p…

Sounds like a lot of waiting around, versus just browsing the aisles. Maybe today’s consumers need to rediscover cash-and-carry, though.

In the dream customers just walk around and make orders. It’s actually old style I think, but with robots. Yeah it’s a bit like cash and carry, but customers didn’t move into the sections. They just get to browse the samples robots carried to them.

TBH, now that I think about it, the dream was way more vague than what I described in the reply. My brain probably reasoned about the idea subconsciously.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#38

Post by brookst »

Weird headline, totally unsupported by the article.

According to the article, there were several strategic blunders, including trying the model outside of cities where lack of density cut against it. Plus the apparent dismissal any value their 2700 retail locations could provide.

As far as I can tell, Kroger didn’t acknowledge anything except a change in strategy.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#39

Post by seanmcdirmid »

markus_zhang wrote: post #25

I had a wonderful retro futuristic dream about an automated Costco warehouse a few weeks ago. It was one of the less weird dreams so I still remember it clearly. Basically, each section is like a closed areas with some windows. Customers order at the computers by the windows and flash their membership cards. Robots glide left and right to move 10 samples to the customer, in an arm with rotating clips. Customers can p…

Sounds like the old general store model, you didn’t browse yourself, the shop keep would bring out what you wanted, it was always behind the counter. I experienced this in China when I started visiting in 1999/early 2000s, it’s mostly not like that anymore though. You still have department stores where you need to buy things first before touching them, though.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#40

Post by markus_zhang »

whynotmaybe wrote: post #33
markus_zhang wrote: post #25

I had a wonderful retro futuristic dream about an automated Costco warehouse a few weeks ago. It was one of the less weird dreams so I still remember it clearly. Basically, each section is like a closed areas with some windows. Customers order at the computers by the windows and flash their membership cards. Robots glide left and right to move 10 samples to the customer, in an arm with rotating clips. Customers can p…

Something like this? https://www.untappedcities.com/automats-cafeterias-nyc/

Yeah, something like this.

The only exception in warehouse was the cafeteria. I guess my brain wanted to make something retro futuristic so it made the cafeteria “retro” — manned by humans and cooked by humans too. There were even balloons inside now that I recall…

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