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Yadea is coming to the Western market

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Re: Yadea is coming to the Western market

#31

Post by cptskippy »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #24
tigranbs wrote: post #9

EV motorcycles are a huge struggle! I have been riding motorcycles pretty much my whole adult life, but after trying electric bikes a few times while in the EU, I felt they were like toys. Honestly, how can you ride a motorcycle that sounds like a kitchen blender? FYI: I understand they are more efficient and faster, but a motorcycle is not about efficiency; it's more about a hobby, fun. In the EU market, it is mostl…

EBikes are quiet and awesome. People who like loud bikes and loud cars are, thankfully an extreme minority where I live.

The Venn Diagram of people who ride motorcycles purely for entertainment, and people who like to annoy others by being loud and obnoxious is just a circle.

Re: Yadea is coming to the Western market

#32

Post by mynameisash »

tigranbs wrote: post #9

EV motorcycles are a huge struggle! I have been riding motorcycles pretty much my whole adult life, but after trying electric bikes a few times while in the EU, I felt they were like toys. Honestly, how can you ride a motorcycle that sounds like a kitchen blender? FYI: I understand they are more efficient and faster, but a motorcycle is not about efficiency; it's more about a hobby, fun. In the EU market, it is mostl…

> a motorcycle is not about efficiency; it's more about a hobby, fun.

It's also about fun, but for me, it's definitely about efficiency. My 600cc gets 50mpg versus 31 for my Honda Fit.

98% of my 30k+ miles on my bike are commuting miles. Bonus efficiencies: better parking, HOV lanes.

Re: Yadea is coming to the Western market

#33

Post by baseballdork »

Retric wrote: post #20
baseballdork wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they faster? I guess at some point it comes down to gearing, but a liter bike is hitting 300km/h and has more than enough torque to loop you from standing still. I'm not sure what an electric motor adds here for hobbyists or speed demons.

ICE engines lose power when changing gears, so they aren’t strictly grip limited.

Sure, but when you can get to 90mph in first gear, does that matter?

Re: Yadea is coming to the Western market

#34

Post by somerandomqaguy »

tigranbs wrote: post #9

EV motorcycles are a huge struggle! I have been riding motorcycles pretty much my whole adult life, but after trying electric bikes a few times while in the EU, I felt they were like toys. Honestly, how can you ride a motorcycle that sounds like a kitchen blender? FYI: I understand they are more efficient and faster, but a motorcycle is not about efficiency; it's more about a hobby, fun. In the EU market, it is mostl…

They shine best I think as alternatives to the 50cc segment; 60kph max with round trip taking 5km to 10km. At that point the limitations aren't a big deal. Anything beyond that's... iffy.

Re: Yadea is coming to the Western market

#35

Post by alecco »

imglorp wrote: post #7

The US desperately needs some competition in the EV motorcycle space. There are several players but they still seem boutique and and way over what the price should be.

Nobody can compete against China today: almost zero regulation, massive subsidies, integrated supply chain (also subsidized), a lot of credit, and millions of cheap engineers (no unions!). And some companies can just pay suppliers with bonds/IOUs on future earnings (like BYD).

Re: Yadea is coming to the Western market

#36

Post by hnav »

asdff wrote: post #17
imglorp wrote: post #7

The US desperately needs some competition in the EV motorcycle space. There are several players but they still seem boutique and and way over what the price should be.

It is amazing the premium on EV in both bikes and motorcycles. I mean a honda Navi motorcycle is only $2000 somehow.

With bicycles weight and refinement is a huge issue so to get something nice you do have to use more premium materials and production techniques. If you forego low weight and refinement, there are plenty of Alibaba specials both in kit and kickstarter brand form, but if you want a 40lb middrive with 300-400w of power, 0.3-0.4kwh and a natural feeling torque sensing control, you need to open you wallet to the tune of $4k.

Motorcycles are also interesting because they're at most 1.5-2x as efficient as cars, especially on the highway (poor aerodynamics). They're small so people assume they're gas-sippers, but at 80mph a sportsbike is not giving you much more than 45mpg. A typical bike carries 3-ish gallons for an effective range of 150 miles. To give an ev motorcycle a comparable range, you're looking at close to 20kwh of battery. In China a kwh of NMC battery is said to be $120-ish, so you're looking at $2k in just battery, excluding drive unit, inverter/charger, thermal management. Conversely a motorcycle engine and transmission is typically a single unit, all bathed in the same oil and amortized over huge production runs, for a simple 80hp drivetrain, I wouldn't be surprised if the marginal cost of production is $2k for the whole thing.

Re: Yadea is coming to the Western market

#37

Post by nickthegreek »

HPsquared wrote: post #12
tigranbs wrote: post #9

EV motorcycles are a huge struggle! I have been riding motorcycles pretty much my whole adult life, but after trying electric bikes a few times while in the EU, I felt they were like toys. Honestly, how can you ride a motorcycle that sounds like a kitchen blender? FYI: I understand they are more efficient and faster, but a motorcycle is not about efficiency; it's more about a hobby, fun. In the EU market, it is mostl…

For many it's about traffic and parking. At least for the moped / scooter riders.

One the primary reasons I have a vespa is that in my big city you are allowed to park them for free on the sidewalk as long as you are not blocking the main flow of traffic. Never having to worry about parking gets me out and about when I never would have due to the headache before. It is so convenient and the gas mileage is nuts.

Re: Yadea is coming to the Western market

#38

Post by alistairSH »

hnav wrote: post #36
asdff wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is amazing the premium on EV in both bikes and motorcycles. I mean a honda Navi motorcycle is only $2000 somehow.

With bicycles weight and refinement is a huge issue so to get something nice you do have to use more premium materials and production techniques. If you forego low weight and refinement, there are plenty of Alibaba specials both in kit and kickstarter brand form, but if you want a 40lb middrive with 300-400w of power, 0.3-0.4kwh and a natural feeling torque sensing control, you need to open you wallet to the tune of…

My Vespa Sprint 150 gets ~100mpg around town. It cost ~$5000, much of which is a brand premium. 150cc scooters from other brands (Genuine, etc) are much less.

Re: Yadea is coming to the Western market

#39

Post by alistairSH »

bluGill wrote: post #4
sema4hacker wrote: post #3

This is two-wheelers, not cars.

Motorcycles. Or perhaps scooters - they are form we rarely see in the US so I'm not sure exactly what to call them.

Legally, they’re all motorcycle. Unless they’re mopeds (50cc, speed limited).

But colloquially, if it’s a step-through, it’s called a scooter. Most of which have a CVT transmission, where most motorcycles have a 6-speed manual (toe shift) transmission.

Re: Yadea is coming to the Western market

#40

Post by m463 »

imglorp wrote: post #7

The US desperately needs some competition in the EV motorcycle space. There are several players but they still seem boutique and and way over what the price should be.

there's not that much of a US motorcycle market in general.

As for electric, I would guess it's zero? (maybe harley?)

It's interesting that japanese motorcycles have always been on the cutting edge... but not on the cutting edge as far as electric.

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