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Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

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Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#31

Post by hannob »

I found the intro very confusing, tbh.

Particularly the "no increased risk of all-cause mortality". I mean, if we assume the vaccines worked, we'd certainly expect a decreased risk of all-case mortality (because "all-case mortality" certainly includes "covid mortality"). Reading "no increase" seems to imply "it doesn't change anything". Yeah, technically, the sentence does not say that ("no increase" can mean "no decrease" or "no change").

You have to read further below to get what should be the real message on all-cause-mortality: "Vaccinated individuals had [...] a 25% lower risk of all-cause mortality". I think that should've been in the first 1-2 sentences.

Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#35

Post by estearum »

exceptthisthing wrote: post #28
infamouscow wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

No not really, since there are other studies that answer the question of vaccine safety and effectiveness in the more emergency scenario of Spoiler: They were also extremely safe and extremely effective then, too.

You can see it unambiguously in county-level excess mortality metrics split by political affiliation in the US. The anti-science right wing political sphere gave us a natural experiment that produced very clear results: lots of people dying before vaccines, then across the board death reduction after vaccines, then a red-blue bifurcation later on, after vaccines were politicized.

Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#36

Post by laichzeit0 »

dalbaugh wrote: post #5

Unfortunately, I don't think any additional evidence will convince vaccine skeptics of the safety of mRNA vaccines

Unfortunately, this is an observational study and when you get to the confounding part, they kind of shrug their shoulders and say “well, we included a bunch of covariates that should reduce make the bias go away”, but there’s no causal diagram so we have no idea how they reasoned about this. If you’ve read even something layman friendly like Pearl’s Book of Why you should be feeling nervous about this.

Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#37

Post by theptip »

colingauvin wrote: post #11

>Vaccinated individuals were older than unvaccinated individuals (mean [SD] age, 38.0 [11.8] years vs 37.1 [11.4] years), more frequently women (11 688 603 [51.3%] vs 2 876 039 [48.5%]) and had more cardiometabolic comorbidities (2 126 250 [9.3%] vs 464 596 [7.8%]). This is interesting because of "supposed" cardiovascular effects of the vaccine that many folks were worried about. Even more confounding is the gender d…

The increase in myocarditis from the vaccine is well-documented. (And very small.)

COVID causes myocarditis too (even for young people unlikely to die from COVID itself), at much higher rates. So you only need a 20% chance of contracting COVID for the vaccine to be net positive in the least obviously positive age group.

Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#38

Post by titzer »

infamouscow wrote: post #7
dalbaugh wrote: post #5

Unfortunately, I don't think any additional evidence will convince vaccine skeptics of the safety of mRNA vaccines

[flagged]

Well blow me down, people being skeptical of a study that defied basically all other Science and goes against our entire understanding of how vaccines and immune systems work? Yeah, of course I'd be skeptical. I'd be interested and I'd read it (!) but yeah, I'd seriously question what was wrong with the study.

Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#39

Post by exceptthisthing »

kachapopopow wrote: post #3

tl;dr: no, covid-19 vaccinated group had no increased risk of death, but did have decreased risk of death for covid (except in Corse region?) edit: tl;dr: covid-19 mRNA vaccine was effective and did not contribute to increased deaths.

if you were among persons "who were alive on November 1, 2021"

Re: Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination and 4-Year All-Cause Mortality

#40

Post by lesuorac »

exceptthisthing wrote: post #21
dalbaugh wrote: post #5

Unfortunately, I don't think any additional evidence will convince vaccine skeptics of the safety of mRNA vaccines

[flagged]

Your argument is what exactly?

Covid vaccines are unnecessary because we can just infect everybody with covid and the ones that survive don't need one?

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