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India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

reuters.com

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Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#31

Post by pixelatedindex »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Do we have a breakdown of what this app actually does?

https://sancharsaathi.gov.in

- Report fraud/scam calls and SMS directly from your phone.

- Block or track lost/stolen phones by disabling their IMEI so they can’t be misused.

- View all mobile numbers registered under your ID and report any unauthorized SIM cards.

- Verify if a phone is genuine with an IMEI/device authenticity check.

- Report telecom misuse, such as spoofed calls or suspicious international numbers.

The stated goal is protect users from digital fraud and safer telecom usage, who knows how good it’ll be. Probably a PITA.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#32

Post by iancarroll »

alephnerd wrote: post #14
iancarroll wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in mainland China, where iOS does have a large amount of changes to comply with local regulations, Apple does not pre-install any apps from anyone.

China doesn't require pre-installed apps but the Chinese government require all data processing and storage to be conducted within China with complete source code access. India chose to back off on data sovereignty [0] because it would have had a side effect of making Indian IT Offshoring less competitive plus to help make negotiating a US-India BTA easier [1]. [0] - https://verfassungsblog.de/cross-border-data-flows…

I don't think there is any reason to assume they would allow forced code execution just because they allow data residency for mainland accounts. And unfortunately, China is likely a much larger and more profitable consumer market than India - presumably they can still export phones produced inside India without this.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#33

Post by wildylion »

alephnerd wrote: post #4
qwerty59 wrote: post #2

Very concerning. I will be suprised if companies like apple comply though.

> I will be suprised if companies like apple comply though They will. All tech companies already comply with India's IT Act. And India now manufactures 44% of all iPhones sold in the US [0] while dangling the stick of a $38B anti-trust fine [6] but also the carrot of implementing China-style labor laws [10] that Apple lobbied for [11], so Apple doesn't have much of a choice because both China and Vietnam (the primary…

And these mofos complied to the request to block VPN apps on iPhones in Russia. Think about companies that cooperated with the Nazis.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#34

Post by SilverElfin »

I assume that in the US, the major manufacturers of phones and their operating systems already have backdoors for national security reasons. I think back to the past leaks from Snowden regarding the PRISM program. That program specifically included Google and Apple cooperating with the government under the FISA Amendments Act of 2008.

So while this state-owned cyber safety app is authoritarian, I wonder if it reflects just the most practical way India’s government can achieve the same things that the US has.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#35

Post by politelemon »

djohnston wrote: post #26
rishabhaiover wrote: post #22

I'm shocked by people and state using the crutch of cyber crime or scams to push a totalitarian solution to a problem that is better solved by improved education and targeted campaigns against common security pitfalls. I abhor any decision that robs even a grain of my individual freedom.

I share your abhorrence but are you really shocked? "Think of the children", "Stop the terrorists," these have been the foundations for the erosion of personal liberty for the past thirty years.

And long before that too, it's just taken different soundbites that play on people's fears at the time.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#36

Post by OutOfHere »

alephnerd wrote: post #17
hparadiz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the Achilles heel of having a closed platform. Eventually the government dictates what's supposed to be in it.

Even an open platform would do nothing. If you are a suspect, your phone would be checked in person (India doesn't have the concept of the 4th Amendment, and police demanding physical access to your phone during a search is routine) and if you were using something like GrapheneOS, it would be used as evidence against you. Indian law enforcement has already used access to Signal and Telegram as circumstantial evidence…

FUD

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#37

Post by numpad0 »

stickfigure wrote: post #9

What stops someone from loading GrapheneOS on their (Indian) Android phone?

... secure boot?

I don't understand "just load GrapheneOS" sentiments. It only runs on extremely specific flagship devices with explicit features that allow it that are out of financial and technical reach for >99.9% of population of Earth and it still fully relies on AOSP. It's an escape hatch for mice. Or is it really not that way?

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#38

Post by x0x0 »

rishabhaiover wrote: post #22

I'm shocked by people and state using the crutch of cyber crime or scams to push a totalitarian solution to a problem that is better solved by improved education and targeted campaigns against common security pitfalls. I abhor any decision that robs even a grain of my individual freedom.

> improved education and targeted campaigns against common security pitfalls

Which doesn't work. At all. A familiarity with the last 40 years of computing makes that clear.

The only things that have worked: ios/android walled gardens so users can't install spyware. yubikeys which can't be phished. etc.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#39

Post by JumpCrisscross »

alephnerd wrote: post #30
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Do we have a breakdown of what this app actually does?

https://sancharsaathi.gov.in/ Basically IMEI stamping because sim card purchase with ID has come to be viewed as flawed/compromised by NatSec types in India. Here's some additional context from a previous thread on HN [0] [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40476498 ------ Edit: Can't reply Lots of old phones still exist, so a virtual/eSIM does nothing to give visibility into those devices. Also, India wants t…

> Basically IMEI stamping because sim card purchase with ID has come to be viewed as flawed/compromised by NatSec types in India

Why not mandate virtual SIMs?

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#40

Post by ikmckenz »

profsummergig wrote: post #16

ref: "the new tobacco" this last year i'm seeing very concerning behavior in students in the 14-20 range. complete addiction to their phones. very deep interests in things i was completely unaware that they existed. similar to how when i started noticing anime girlfriends/waifus in 2016. about 40% are deep in discord communities where i literally cannot figure out a single sentence of what they're talking about. if s…

> very deep interests in things i was completely unaware that they existed ... say goodbye to the cognitive ability of a large chunk of future generations

I would think very deep interests in niche or obscure topics is correlated with increased cognitive ability, not a decrease.

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