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True P2P Email on Top of Yggdrasil Network

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Re: True P2P Email on Top of Yggdrasil Network

#31

Post by bofadeez »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #20
velcrovan wrote: post #16

Systems can be so simple and elegant when you just assume no one will use them to send spam.

Spam can be filtered effectively client-side with a good spam filter. This has worked well for me for decades without the need for any server-side spam filtering.

You mean like LLM filters? Right now it's all reputation based on IP and domain with a whole ecosystem of anti-spam companies like Spamhaus, SenderScore, ProofPoint, etc.

Using NLP / LLM spam filtering would presumably be either inaccurate or expensive or both. Someone would have to pay for it.

Re: True P2P Email on Top of Yggdrasil Network

#32

Post by neilalexander »

hofrogs wrote: post #26

Be careful when installing Yggdrasil Network on your device - your device address will be available in a network/peer explorers and if your firewall is not configured to reject incoming connections from the yggdrasil ipv6 interface - your locally running services could get exposed.

Should be noted that this does not apply if you install Yggmail only without mainline Yggdrasil, as Yggmail embeds its own node and does not use TUN.

Re: True P2P Email on Top of Yggdrasil Network

#33

Post by neilalexander »

kurokawad wrote: post #28

> Because the Internet was built around centralized infrastructure. Yeah, well... No. > We finally have this possibility to use true P2P email. I mean, email is literally peer to peer. > Your mail address is derived from your public key: @yggmail The email address is literally 64 hex characters? How am I supposed to use this on a daily basis? I have serious doubts who are the target of this or what is the point of th…

> I have serious doubts who are the target of this or what is the point of this to exist at all. It is literally worse than email.

Yggmail is a fun proof-of-concept and that’s about it. It isn’t perfect, nor does it have to be.

“It’s email, but not as you know it.”

Re: True P2P Email on Top of Yggdrasil Network

#35

Post by jonathanstrange »

bofadeez wrote: post #31
jonathanstrange wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spam can be filtered effectively client-side with a good spam filter. This has worked well for me for decades without the need for any server-side spam filtering.

You mean like LLM filters? Right now it's all reputation based on IP and domain with a whole ecosystem of anti-spam companies like Spamhaus, SenderScore, ProofPoint, etc. Using NLP / LLM spam filtering would presumably be either inaccurate or expensive or both. Someone would have to pay for it.

No, I'm using Bogofilter and it works perfectly. I'm not talking hypothetically. AFAIK, it does some Bayesian statistical analysis.

Re: True P2P Email on Top of Yggdrasil Network

#36

Post by bofadeez »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #35
bofadeez wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like LLM filters? Right now it's all reputation based on IP and domain with a whole ecosystem of anti-spam companies like Spamhaus, SenderScore, ProofPoint, etc. Using NLP / LLM spam filtering would presumably be either inaccurate or expensive or both. Someone would have to pay for it.

No, I'm using Bogofilter and it works perfectly. I'm not talking hypothetically. AFAIK, it does some Bayesian statistical analysis.

That doesn't work alone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_poisoning

Bayesian filters are basically just a cheaper / worse version of what an LLM filter would do. Very easy to beat. Especially if the spammer is using an LLM to write a semi-unique email for each recipient.

Re: True P2P Email on Top of Yggdrasil Network

#37

Post by ddtaylor »

josephg wrote: post #22
ddtaylor wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair there have been multiple popular e-mail networks on Tor like SIGINT in the past and I never received spam there.

Knuth once said there’s two kinds of programming languages in the world: Languages everyone complains about, and languages nobody uses. I feel like there’s some corollary here…

There are actually a lot of networks that people would assume get spammed to death, but they seem to work fine for me when I have used them.

Another example is BitMessage. It worked fine for me I never had random spam or anything.

Re: True P2P Email on Top of Yggdrasil Network

#38

Post by jonathanstrange »

bofadeez wrote: post #36
jonathanstrange wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm using Bogofilter and it works perfectly. I'm not talking hypothetically. AFAIK, it does some Bayesian statistical analysis.

That doesn't work alone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_poisoning Bayesian filters are basically just a cheaper / worse version of what an LLM filter would do. Very easy to beat. Especially if the spammer is using an LLM to write a semi-unique email for each recipient.

What I'm trying to tell you is hat this has de facto worked for me during the past 20+ years. I get ca. 100 spam mails a day and they all get neatly sorted in the spam folder. There is no server-side filtering at all, my email provider allows users to switch that off entirely (and better should because it's very faulty).

As I've said, I'm not interested in theoretical arguments. All of my domains wildcard forward to the same email address, too. Filtering client-side has never been a problem.

Re: True P2P Email on Top of Yggdrasil Network

#39

Post by bofadeez »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #38
bofadeez wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't work alone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_poisoning Bayesian filters are basically just a cheaper / worse version of what an LLM filter would do. Very easy to beat. Especially if the spammer is using an LLM to write a semi-unique email for each recipient.

What I'm trying to tell you is hat this has de facto worked for me during the past 20+ years. I get ca. 100 spam mails a day and they all get neatly sorted in the spam folder. There is no server-side filtering at all, my email provider allows users to switch that off entirely (and better should because it's very faulty). As I've said, I'm not interested in theoretical arguments. All of my domains wildcard forward to…

That's pretty interesting if true. It must be because you're the only one still doing it. Using techniques just for your idiosyncratic inbox doesn't make sense to a spammer. But if every inbox was only doing this, then your experience would be much different. Nothing but unstoppable spam. Exposure = money. Why would they not spam you? They don't like money?
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