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Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

reuters.com

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Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#31

Post by riku_iki »

saidinesh5 wrote: post #11
riku_iki wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rich people just buying rooftop solar systems, which exacerbated the grid problems even more. how it exacerbated problems exactly?..

I'm guessing: fewer people buying from the power companies/grid => the fixed costs of these companies are pushed onto the poorer customers, who already couldn't afford much.

its easily fixable, utility company can charge fee for fixed cost those who connected to the grid, and if all rich decided to disconnect, then they disconnect neighborhood eliminating fixed cost.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#32

Post by ZeroConcerns »

riku_iki wrote: post #10
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #6

I would encourage people to go look at satellite view of random "rich" neighbourhoods in Pakistan, and note how many solar panels there are on rooftops. Here is the first one I scrolled to in Lahore [1], and one in Karachi [2] Pakistan's grid prices tripled or more since the start of the Russia-Ukraine war, because the extremely mismanaged and poorly designed electricity system+economy could not handle the energy pri…

> rich people just buying rooftop solar systems, which exacerbated the grid problems even more. how it exacerbated problems exactly?..

Previously, pretty much everyone (not just 'rich people', although, well, 'rich' is relative here, of course...) had diesel generators, which were not connected to the grid, since that would be seriously expensive, plus syncing would be pretty much impossible anyway.

With solar, you can feed back into the grid much more easily, to the point that this is the default. This sort-of doubles the load on the grid (not exactly, but you get the idea), since both 'consumption' and 'production' need to cross the same wires.

This is a problem even in, like, Germany, where the grid operator can send a "kill signal" to local solar inverters to shut down. In Pakistan, I can't even imagine...

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#33

Post by davyAdewoyin »

UltraSane wrote: post #13
pfdietz wrote: post #3

What this shows is solar is increasingly threatening the electric utility business model. Even without net metering, demand destruction will cause the traditional model to stop working.

What will people do at night?

I think I can answer that, though I'm not a Pakistani but as a Nigerian in a developing country, you might also have a petrol generator for night times. But for the majority of people just having your phone and power bank charged for the night is pretty ok, a plus if you can keep a handful of bulbs on also.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#34

Post by abdullahkhalids »

saidinesh5 wrote: post #11
riku_iki wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rich people just buying rooftop solar systems, which exacerbated the grid problems even more. how it exacerbated problems exactly?..

I'm guessing: fewer people buying from the power companies/grid => the fixed costs of these companies are pushed onto the poorer customers, who already couldn't afford much.

This is correct.

But there is a bit more. Almost all power plants in Pakistan are built with state-backed dollar-denominated loans (reason govt incompetence+corruption). This means if grid demand goes down, power plants don't go out of business like they would in a market based system. Instead, they keep collecting dollar-denominated interest paid by the state, even if they produce zero power.

The state mitigates this by increasing electricity prices (in rupees). I have forgotten how this helps.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#35

Post by namibj »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #29
gus_massa wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't they charge a minimum just for keeping the wires connected?

I heard that they are trying to restructure the billing in this way for next fiscal year (July 2026- ), but its really difficult to find a non-regressive scheme. Electricity per-unit prices in Pakistan are set by the government, they vary depending on how much you consume [1], and they play a pretty significant role in government popularity. [1] There is a price for the first 50 units you consume, then a higher price…

Grids in Germany if you're not a "typical household/office" with therefore atypical grid usage bill for peak power and energy separately; the billing related peak power is measured by averaging power over 15 minute chunks, and taking the worst one of a year.

Alternatively it's also practical for such solar situations to bill for market rate price of the energy in each 15 minute chunk separately; this doesn't correctly attribute transformer and other transmission equipment expenses between solar houses and non-solar houses, but it's still handling the grid tie solar load on the grid's power plants during periods of very little sun.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#36

Post by namibj »

bee_rider wrote: post #23
gus_massa wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't they charge a minimum just for keeping the wires connected?

I think most places the service is priced under the assumption that usage is enough to pay for the grid… I’ve only ever rented though. Are connection fees something that homeworkers think about? Possibly we will have to see changes to account for this sort of stuff at a more granular level, as the grid becomes more dynamic. But, that’s a future we should be actively looking to design for, as the energy supply mix is…

In a random German apartment usage tends to be on the order of 30-ish EUR per person, and the connection fee is typically around 10 EUR per month.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#37

Post by UltraSane »

peppersghost93 wrote: post #21
UltraSane wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will people do at night?

overprovision for their needs during the day and utilize battery power at night.

Solar panels are cheap but batteries are very expensive.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#39

Post by davyAdewoyin »

newsclues wrote: post #20
UltraSane wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will people do at night?

Shift usage to daytime and rely on battery storage.

For my experience a lot of installations really doesn't have much battery capacity cause batteries are pretty expensive at least here in Nigeria, but a lot of people are really happy with the system as long as they get electricity even if it's only during the day.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#40

Post by seanmcdirmid »

SoftTalker wrote: post #7
pfdietz wrote: post #3

What this shows is solar is increasingly threatening the electric utility business model. Even without net metering, demand destruction will cause the traditional model to stop working.

Most people aren’t interested in being responsible for their own electrical generation. Especially with payback still being on the order of decades

Most people don’t have the capital to be responsible for their own electricity generation, except the rich.
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