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Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

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31–40 of 40 posts

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Ignoring all the safety stuff in other replies) These are tunnels over 3km long. You can't have cops down there without breathing apparatus - even if the extractors were safely operating.

Why would it be safe for people driving vehicles, but not for police officers?

In a vaguely sealed container with air being supplied through filters for a few minutes vs. standing in the fumes directly for hours.

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#32

"... growing whisper within the security industry in Melbourne that there weak security might have been breached from China. ..." ~ http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4605335 Any idea what type of systems they are running?

In IT security here in Melbourne, first I've heard of it. Also why would network security specialists need to fly over 30 hours from Europe? We also have some pretty capable teams on the ground here already. Given the time frame of when it happened it's more likely a change that has been borked in some way with difficulties in rolling back.

thx for the insight @bennysaurus. That's what I dislike about rumours, especially with so little info and in areas I lack understanding.

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#33
post #21

I've done work at CityLink, and their IT shop is just totally clueless. This does not surprise me one bit. This is the same company that was doing "mirroring" with Veritas Volume Manager across a metro fibre link, rather than using their TrueCopy licenses. For no reason. Two fibre cuts rendered their entire production database (tolling) environment inoperable and nearly irrecoverable, on two separate occasions. I wor…

I've worked with State Transit in NSW (buses & ferries) and they were awful. The most embarrassing part was the UNIX team and Windows team refusing to talk to each other even though they were only one cubicle partition away from each other so any communication had to go up through two levels of management and back down. The scariest part was every single database of user information was transformed from another datab…

This is unfortunately normal in most public and corporate bodies. They are afraid that if they talk then information will filter across and they'll lose their remit or hold over the solution at hand.

It's silly really.

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#34
post #21

I've done work at CityLink, and their IT shop is just totally clueless. This does not surprise me one bit. This is the same company that was doing "mirroring" with Veritas Volume Manager across a metro fibre link, rather than using their TrueCopy licenses. For no reason. Two fibre cuts rendered their entire production database (tolling) environment inoperable and nearly irrecoverable, on two separate occasions. I wor…

Me too, they are the most imbecilic of IT organizations. And to think its the safetymongers whom ruled the day...

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#35
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that their safety systems (Which anyone would expect to be separate from the traffic control systems) are also affected makes me wonder about the "computer glitch" angle.

Like 99% of news reported computere glitch's it is some human mess up that caused it, either by design or error or a homer moment were somebody pressed the wrong button. Could even be somebody overloading the electrical phases in the datacentre and tripped the UPS into action for it to barth at the imbalance (seen that one). This is why they say computer glitch and count on the majority of non technical people to not…

> Like 99% of news reported computere glitch's it is some human mess up that caused it

If the system allowed the user to do something that impacted safetey in such a way, then the computer glitch is that the computer should stop that sort of thing happening. Human error happens a lot and you have to account for it in your designs.

Of course there are times when you have to trust the user because it is not practical to do those tests (in which case the human should have procedure to follow that mitigates the risk), and instances where the user wil override the checks (when the machines say "I really don't think you should do X because Y, click 'I understand the consequences of my propsosed action' to proceeed") - then it is genuinly human error is something goes wrong.

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#36
post #21

I've done work at CityLink, and their IT shop is just totally clueless. This does not surprise me one bit. This is the same company that was doing "mirroring" with Veritas Volume Manager across a metro fibre link, rather than using their TrueCopy licenses. For no reason. Two fibre cuts rendered their entire production database (tolling) environment inoperable and nearly irrecoverable, on two separate occasions. I wor…

You got movie tickets! A long time ago (13 years) the production database was irrecoverable! I got backups working just a week before tolling finally started. Failure of that system would ultimately result in the tollway becoming a freeway (allowing for buffering of data at the gantries, etc. etc.)

Although I had some responsibility for the tunnel safety systems at the time, we never touched them knowing that any problems would result in the road being closed.

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#37
Apparently the reason the tunnels were closed was that Transurban could not operate the emergency sprinkler system and smoke extraction fans. Surely it would have been cheaper for Transurban to pay a few MFB fire trucks to be stationed outside the tunnels and close a lane to guarantee them access in case of an emergency. That way traffic could flow, tolls could be charged, and nobody would be as upset. I am sure Transurban make more than the fire brigade would charge them per hour.

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have fume extractor fans in the tunnels. If they aren't on, CO poisoning for everyone.

One would hope that the "fail safe" scenario for fume extractor fans would be "Blow at full speed"

Or, indeed, that they wouldn't be linked to the traffic light system in the first place.

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In IT security here in Melbourne, first I've heard of it. Also why would network security specialists need to fly over 30 hours from Europe? We also have some pretty capable teams on the ground here already. Given the time frame of when it happened it's more likely a change that has been borked in some way with difficulties in rolling back.

thx for the insight @bennysaurus. That's what I dislike about rumours, especially with so little info and in areas I lack understanding.

No trouble and agreed - rumours flying around like that don't help the problem. If there was that level of security breech, outsiders would probably do more than lock everybody out anyway.

Finding further information about it: looks like a core switch died with the backup not kicking in. 12 hours to work around is a but much though.

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#40
post #36
post #21

I've done work at CityLink, and their IT shop is just totally clueless. This does not surprise me one bit. This is the same company that was doing "mirroring" with Veritas Volume Manager across a metro fibre link, rather than using their TrueCopy licenses. For no reason. Two fibre cuts rendered their entire production database (tolling) environment inoperable and nearly irrecoverable, on two separate occasions. I wor…

You got movie tickets! A long time ago (13 years) the production database was irrecoverable! I got backups working just a week before tolling finally started. Failure of that system would ultimately result in the tollway becoming a freeway (allowing for buffering of data at the gantries, etc. etc.) Although I had some responsibility for the tunnel safety systems at the time, we never touched them knowing that any pro…

From what I remember, the gantries were (at the time, a few years ago) able to store about 2 weeks' worth of traffic before tolls would effectively become free.
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