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Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

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Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#31
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the parents. I wasn't aware the corporations were responsible for the raising of children. That said, I'm with you on reducing the abstraction of liability that is the purpose of corporations. I just don't think parents not parenting is the reason to do it. I also don't really think parents should be thrown in prison and families destroyed. The use of violent force in this situation, against the CEOs or the parent…

Parents understand that they cannot be the sole arbiter of everything for their children. Locking down your children's inputs is not fully realistic. If you remember being a child you remember circumventing your parents at every turn.

And so instead we should expect corporations to fill that role?

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#32
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different from a LAN party? I spent countless hours engrossed in DOOM deathmatches and Starcraft games as a kid. I don’t really see the difference. The problem outlined in the article is about moderation of spaces where kids are present. You seem to be trying to draw some broader conclusion that video games are harmful.

> You seem to be trying to draw some broader conclusion that video games are harmful. I never said video games are harmful. I talked about manipulation of people of all ages at a planetary scale.

Ok, thanks for clarifying. Still, I don’t see too much in modern gaming that’s different from what we had as kids. The gacha/gambling mechanics are overused and this might be detrimental. But I definitely spent days glued to the screen back in the day even without that stuff.

(The moderation problems in the article are clearly a new and separate issue that needs to be dealt with.)

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#33
There's a natural tension between freedom and protection here. Anyone on HN is aware of all the debate for and against section 230. We're also probably the crowd most vocally against ID verification laws for adult sites or just age verification for non-adult content, like YouTube or Discord.

I, personally, am in the "Parents gotta parent" camp, but know that doesn't cover all the problems, plus only addresses children when there's also real harm to adults too.

This turns into a big mess of a discussion involving data privacy laws too, and before you know it you have people talking about how the US needs a GDPR equivalent and someone else complaining about cookie banners, loosing the thread entirely as it turns into this big swirling mess of a problem with some people worried about kids, some worried about privacy, some worried about actual personal impacts/addiction, etc.

I feel like a lot of it quickly becomes disconnected from reality. Let's pick on the adult site age verification laws. I live in Nebraska, which means if I go to HornPub, it tell me "Govenment said no"

Now, I'm not going to pretend they're some beacons of moral authority, but I at least think for their own business interest they'll keep CSAM and revenge content off their platform. But what happens when a 16 year old that absolutely will find a place to watch adult content anyway goes looking? Would we rather them wind up on a platform that's moderately safe, or somewhere that serves the worst of the worst?

That, I think, is the problem: Any rules, laws that say "Let's restrict what websites can serve users" mean either a total country-wide mass surveillance system tied into every ISP filtering every domain and blackholing any request to all but approved DNS servers and aggressively blocking VPNs, or it's a law only hurting the companies at least trying to comply with the laws that do matter.

This article has undertones of asking for better parental controls, but kids will always bypass them unless they're aggressive enough that adults are uncomfortable with them too.

I have seen adults in my life fall victim to addiction to social media (Facebook, tiktok) , online shopping (Temu, Amazon), and I can't help but think the solution is pretty obvious:

Don't kill the product, regulate it's abuse. Facebook? Make algorithmic feeds / infinite scrolling illegal (At least as the default), not social media. Temu? Make gamling-esque UI illegal. Make new data protection laws. Hold executives that violate these laws criminally liable. Fine the companies more than the cost of doing business.

Roblox, Minecraft, and other games with user-created mini-games/servers/etc and random encounters with strangers online? Competitive games with kernel level anti-cheat? We all bitch about them, but the answer has always been obvious: Don't hang out with random strangers. The services should provide a friends-only mode, and that should be the default. Ta-da, problem solved, by social means, not technical means.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#34
post #7

We need to pass laws that can make these executives serve jail time. You’d quickly see these “impossible to moderate” platforms quickly clean up.

I don't understand why this is getting downvoted. As another response mentioned, we wouldn't tolerate this in any other industry. If a restaurant served food that harmed people we wouldn't say, "it's on the parents." I don't get why so many folks are willing to say that with harms caused by tech companies. Scale is no excuse either, "at our scale we just can't handle all the content." If anything it makes the problem…

> If a restaurant served food that harmed people we wouldn't say, "it's on the parents."

Isn't that how moralizing about the health benefits of a McDonalds-based diet go?

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#35
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different from a LAN party? I spent countless hours engrossed in DOOM deathmatches and Starcraft games as a kid. I don’t really see the difference. The problem outlined in the article is about moderation of spaces where kids are present. You seem to be trying to draw some broader conclusion that video games are harmful.

Color me naive but we're there micropayments, sex and actual gambling in DOOM?

OP didn’t mention those, the focus was on a room of kids “locked” to their screens as if that was the primary issue. That’s what I was responding to.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#36
post #11

I want to share a small story a close friend told me. His son is eleven. Every Saturday he goes to tennis class. He's good at it, sure, but the important part is that he loves it. One Saturday, though, he refused to go. Why? Because there was a special Roblox event happening at the same time. His father tried reasoning with him, the kid, agrees, a bit reluctantly. But when the father walks into the bar, he sees a doz…

Adults definitely do this too.

I bet adult tennis instructors get a lot of cancellations on Super Bowl Sunday. In certain circles, you're going to have a hard time scheduling a screen-free dinner party on Oscar night, or opposite the finale of a hit TV show.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#37

It's a nightmare managing all this stuff. Roblox, Minecraft, Meta Quest services, Fortnite, the list goes on and on. These companies are not helping us either. Thankfully my son and his friends have somehow iterated away from Fortnite. It's no longer cool so they just stopped playing it. That's one less thing I have to worry about.

What's wrong with Minecraft? I'm not exactly a Microsoft fan, but am pretty impressed with how little control they have so far exerted over Java Edition, they even made modding easier recently by removing obfuscation. You can run your own server as much as you want with no fees, obligations or anything. And unless the kids know a server address, they can't easily join some third party server with weird stuff going on. Not that I ever heard of one of those, but I'm sure they must exist.

Roblox is a dystopian nightmare in comparison.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#38
post #11

I want to share a small story a close friend told me. His son is eleven. Every Saturday he goes to tennis class. He's good at it, sure, but the important part is that he loves it. One Saturday, though, he refused to go. Why? Because there was a special Roblox event happening at the same time. His father tried reasoning with him, the kid, agrees, a bit reluctantly. But when the father walks into the bar, he sees a doz…

How is this different from a LAN party? I spent countless hours engrossed in DOOM deathmatches and Starcraft games as a kid. I don’t really see the difference. The problem outlined in the article is about moderation of spaces where kids are present. You seem to be trying to draw some broader conclusion that video games are harmful.

[deleted]

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#39

It's a nightmare managing all this stuff. Roblox, Minecraft, Meta Quest services, Fortnite, the list goes on and on. These companies are not helping us either. Thankfully my son and his friends have somehow iterated away from Fortnite. It's no longer cool so they just stopped playing it. That's one less thing I have to worry about.

Whats wrong with Minecraft, that seems like an odd inclusion in the list?

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#40

It's a nightmare managing all this stuff. Roblox, Minecraft, Meta Quest services, Fortnite, the list goes on and on. These companies are not helping us either. Thankfully my son and his friends have somehow iterated away from Fortnite. It's no longer cool so they just stopped playing it. That's one less thing I have to worry about.

Thankfully? Why don't you just forbid him to play Fortnite? Sounds like your son doesn't listen to you, and that's a problem.
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