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Debunking the Myths of the HBO Chernobyl series (2023)

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Re: Debunking the Myths of the HBO Chernobyl series (2023)

#31

Post by muxl »

hkpack wrote: post #6

I think we need to also debunk the debunking. You know, some of us were already living then and it is not some distant event we have no knowledge of. For example: > Re: The soviet government did not want to evacuate the town of Pripyat > Debunking: Legasov indicated the opposite. He said that the decision to evacuate was made quickly, even though the levels of radiation in the town were not considered to be dangerous…

I agree there are some claims in this article that should be further scrutinized but it's true that the levels of radiation were not as high as one might assume. The direction of the wind during and immediately following the disaster slowed the spread of radioactive material over Pripyat (this is also why southern Belarus was hit so hard). The prevailing winds in that region are north east and the Chernobyl power plant was on the north side of the city. By the time of the May day parade the winds had shifted such that Kiev was downwind from Chernobyl.

The KGB did their best to contain information about the disaster in general and the USSR wanted the May day parade to go on as-planned to make it look like things were fine. Even those with enough power or connections to be aware of the danger were pressured to participate. The May day parade was later often referred to in infamy by the Ukrainian independence movement following the disaster.

Most of my information comes from what I remember of reading "Midnight in Chernobyl" and "Chernobyl the History of a Nuclear Disaster"

Re: Debunking the Myths of the HBO Chernobyl series (2023)

#32

Post by osm3000 »

Symmetry wrote: post #23

The bit about "The water tanks in the reactor were full, and the uranium fuel rods were at risk of melting through the water tanks, potentially releasing a force equivalent to a multi-megaton nuclear device and devastating much of Europe with radiation." is sort of complex to judge. It is absolutely true that that scenario was impossible and couldn't actually happen. But as far as we can tell (documented in Voices of…

That is a very good point

My angle was: HBO series said Legasov's position was something that was by far not true

Re: Debunking the Myths of the HBO Chernobyl series (2023)

#33

Post by nebula8804 »

mingus88 wrote: post #8
dylan604 wrote: post #2

It's funny that this series seems as if it is being confused as a documentary. It was a dramatic telling of a story. Creative licensing was in full effect. The first item in the "Series VS tapes: point by point" is a very common use of that creative licensing. Trying to follow multiple people in a work like this gets tiring and a bit boring. The details are kept, but it's easier to follow when those multiple people a…

Sadly, most people aren’t readers. I saw an article the other day stating the percentage of people who read for pleasure has declined into the low teens The true story of Chernobyl isn’t going to land with folk today. We’ve lost the attention span for anything longer than a slick miniseries with A list actors. Even then, most people I know haven’t seen the show, which is amazing. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles…

Books are taking a backseat to Movies. Movies are taking a backseat to Mini series. Mini series are taking a backseat to Video Games. Video Games are taking a back seat to Youtube.

There are only 24 hours in a day and no one gets more. This results in shifting preferences for consumption patterns over time.

I hear boomers spend all their time in movie theaters instead of sitting down and reading a good book. Don't they know movies are evil and are going to rot their brains?

I hear Gen X loves to watch TV. What a bunch of 'slackers'. What's with these shows like Sienfeld? Its a show about nothing! Why would anyone watch that?

I hear millennials are spending all their time playing video games instead of watching quality TV. What is it with this PlayStation nonsense? Its a TOY!

I hear Gen-Z loves to just sit around and watch people play games instead of playing them. Have their brains completely rotted?

I hear Gen Alpha does not even bother with people playing and just watches the output of game engines as the old kids would say 'I don't even': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WePNs-G7puA

Long story short: Cultural preferences change over time. My view is Let them cook :)

Re: Debunking the Myths of the HBO Chernobyl series (2023)

#34

Post by osm3000 »

tptacek wrote: post #30
osm3000 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've mentioned her article. I think she barely touched the topic of Chernobyl itself. Her points was about what the Soviet life was back then, and some depictions of this was incorrect. For example (for her article) > In Episode 2, for example, the Central Committee member Boris Shcherbina (Stellan Skarsgård) threatens to have Legasov shot if he doesn’t tell him how a nuclear reactor works. There are a lot of people…

Again, it's weird, because Legosov isn't even the primary source for the series, which is an explicitly fictionalized recounting of what happened. As Gessen points out, your thing about Legasov being part of a team is literally a character in the series!

> because Legosov isn't even the primary source for the series

I think it was explicit that the series framed the tapes as the "revelation"; the honest message of a dying man to the world to expose what actually happened

Re: Debunking the Myths of the HBO Chernobyl series (2023)

#35

Post by swatcoder »

nebula8804 wrote: post #33
mingus88 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, most people aren’t readers. I saw an article the other day stating the percentage of people who read for pleasure has declined into the low teens The true story of Chernobyl isn’t going to land with folk today. We’ve lost the attention span for anything longer than a slick miniseries with A list actors. Even then, most people I know haven’t seen the show, which is amazing. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles…

Books are taking a backseat to Movies. Movies are taking a backseat to Mini series. Mini series are taking a backseat to Video Games. Video Games are taking a back seat to Youtube. There are only 24 hours in a day and no one gets more. This results in shifting preferences for consumption patterns over time. I hear boomers spend all their time in movie theaters instead of sitting down and reading a good book. Don't th…

> Cultural preferences change over time.

Sure. And historically, major such changes also often came with meaningful societal consequences. Shifts in power, wealth concentration, equality, capability, liberty, resilience, stability, cohesion, ingenuity, all sorts of thing.

You can hold whatever view you'd like, but assuming a cultural change is inherently for the best just because its a big or widespread one might leave you a little blindsided someday.

Re: Debunking the Myths of the HBO Chernobyl series (2023)

#36

Post by dralley »

jihadjihad wrote: post #7

It's a dramatization, of course there are going to be liberties taken and creative license used to further the (TFA might say contrived) story. One thing not mentioned in TFA, though, is how those suffering from radiation sickness (first responders like the firefighter Ignatenko, etc.) are portrayed almost as if they are contagious, and so should not be touched. The Chernobyl series is not the only one to do this, ei…

An unfortunate detail is that the wife of the firefighter (Ignatenko) who was portrayed in Chernobyl was recently killed by a Russian drone which hit her apartment building.

Re: Debunking the Myths of the HBO Chernobyl series (2023)

#38

Post by tptacek »

osm3000 wrote: post #34
tptacek wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, it's weird, because Legosov isn't even the primary source for the series, which is an explicitly fictionalized recounting of what happened. As Gessen points out, your thing about Legasov being part of a team is literally a character in the series!

> because Legosov isn't even the primary source for the series I think it was explicit that the series framed the tapes as the "revelation"; the honest message of a dying man to the world to expose what actually happened

I think you're over-reading what was really just a dramatic framing for the series. The author was explicit that he used composite characters and multiple sources.

It's not a documentary! That doesn't mean you can't criticize it (Gessen sure did). It's that a lot of the kinds of criticisms you make don't make sense given what the show is.

Re: Debunking the Myths of the HBO Chernobyl series (2023)

#39

Post by muxl »

tptacek wrote: post #17

M. Gessen wrote a much better piece about the accuracy of HBO's Chernobyl: https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/what-hbos-cher... This piece seems a little confused, since Legasov wasn't the primary source for the show?

The show makes reference to "Midnight in Chernobyl" in its epilogue, I think it's safe to say it was one of the main sources of information for the show (though of course they took liberties because it was a historical drama).

Re: Debunking the Myths of the HBO Chernobyl series (2023)

#40

Post by amiga386 »

chemotaxis wrote: post #20

This is a really weird post. The thrust appears to be a contrarian desire to portray the Soviet government as capable and competent, and I wonder if it's the author's naivete or some sort of an agenda. The post latches on small discrepancies, but somehow ignores the entire impetus of Legasov's tapes. He sure didn't record them to praise the government: "And when I visited the Chernobyl station after the accident and…

Yes, this is a very odd take. There are many other things in Legasov's tapes but not the miniseries, that very much get to the heart of the Soviet system of government. Where in the article is there space to discuss points like these?

> The fault of Anatoly Pavlovich Alexandrov is that he, albeit reluctantly, consented. He was against it, objected to it together with the experts, but then went on to meet the stubborn requirements of State Planning Committee and the Ministry of Energy, that stations can be built without containments.

> Sidorenko Viktor Alekseyevich, the director of the Department of Nuclear Reactors at our institute, the author of this doctoral dissertation and this book, was expelled from the institute. He had to leave the institute. Because his own colleagues didn’t understand him. But why didn’t they understand him? Because his colleagues got bonuses from the Ministry; because the institute was part of the Ministry of Medium Machine Building. Do you understand? They see the director, who is a corresponding member of the Academy of Sciences, and their [own] salary is lousy. If he doesn’t get a bonus of 100 roubles, he will survive. But I get only 180 and for me, a bonus of 100 roubles is important. If I “squeal” about the cost of these containments, then I will not get a bonus. If I say something wrong, I will not be published and my dissertation will fail.

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