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The Connectivity Standards Alliance Announces Zigbee 4.0 and Suzi

csa-iot.org

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Re: The Connectivity Standards Alliance Announces Zigbee 4.0 and Suzi

#31

Post by diffeomorphism »

samoit wrote: post #25
hobofan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the facto *de facto Any reason you prefer Matter rather than Zigbee? Zigbee has been a thing far longer than Matter, so I don't think the "one more standard" criticism is valid here.

It is supposedly an open source standard that do not requires internet connection to work, and can use regular wifi (2,4ghz) networks as a means to connect devices so you do not need to buy a hub for them. You can create your own hub with a mini pc for instance with a regular wifi card. No need for specific hardware

For matter over thread you do need a hub and you need more certifications for matter, so for manufacturers it is less open.

The standardization is a plus though.

Re: The Connectivity Standards Alliance Announces Zigbee 4.0 and Suzi

#32

Post by StopDisinfo910 »

samoit wrote: post #25
hobofan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the facto *de facto Any reason you prefer Matter rather than Zigbee? Zigbee has been a thing far longer than Matter, so I don't think the "one more standard" criticism is valid here.

It is supposedly an open source standard that do not requires internet connection to work, and can use regular wifi (2,4ghz) networks as a means to connect devices so you do not need to buy a hub for them. You can create your own hub with a mini pc for instance with a regular wifi card. No need for specific hardware

I mean you can already do exactly that with zigbee after buying a zigbee usb connector which are extremely cheap.

I know because that’s what I have been doing for the past five years.

But to be fair my setup is now mostly IKEA so I guess I could go back to a bridge and stop having to maintain my stuff at some point.

Re: The Connectivity Standards Alliance Announces Zigbee 4.0 and Suzi

#33

Post by yurishimo »

tomtom1337 wrote: post #17
gruturo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh cool it's not just me doing exactly this. Sticking to pure zigbee devices with zigbee2mqtt and slae.sh's excellent USB coordinator. A couple weeks ago I bought a bunch of spare IKEA zigbee devices before they go out of stock. Around 2030 I'll take a look if thread/matter is anywhere near mature and has settled.

Are the ikea zigbee devices going to stop being sold? Massive shame if so, they are extremely reliable and easy to use.

Personally, I find their contact sensors (the tall-ish thin ones) to be quite unreliable. I live in a modest home with plenty of zigbee devices as repeaters nearby and the contact sensors often stop reporting at random. I’ll pop it off the door, click repair on my coordinator and then hit the reset switch on the sensor; back online.

I like them because they can use rechargeable AAA batteries but if I still have to touch them every few weeks to repair, I’d rather switch to a different brand that is more reliable and uses less ideal battery formats.

That said, the newish Inspelling plugs in the EU market are fantastic. They report reliably, can handle larger loads, and cost about €10. For that price, it’s hard to complain that they are a bit larger than other options.

Re: The Connectivity Standards Alliance Announces Zigbee 4.0 and Suzi

#34

Post by sashahilton »

All these new standards looking to become the successor to WiFi/Zigbee IoT devices, yet every single one makes the same mistake - they think that because they find ways to force certification, take away end user control and extract licensing fees, that they’re somehow going to convince people to buy it as the next big thing.

I was cautiously optimistic when Matter/Thread was in its early days, but predictably as with most of these industry backed standards it’s turned into another pay to play walled garden. The CSA seems to be particularly bad at this.

Cant wait to see in subsequent years all the additional e-waste when manufacturers consider devices obsolete, and no one can repurpose them because of Matter spec mandating secure boot.

Re: The Connectivity Standards Alliance Announces Zigbee 4.0 and Suzi

#36

Post by moogly »

dwaite wrote: post #18
Koffiepoeder wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I really don't like about thread/matter is that it is becoming the de-facto standard that thread border routers are connected to the internet. This will in time result in IoT devices that actually mandate this connection (it was already stipulated in a recent version of the protocol). The end result will be that a new protocol was created, but rather than devices being able to run on their own, we end up with be…

A lot of zigbee infrastructure also expect an internet connection. These border routers also double as admins, and people want their smart home stuff to be available while they are outside their home network. Thread devices can mandate internet connectivity the same way Wifi devices can. Matter defines profiles and does certification that says your light bulbs cannot require an internet connection. The admin your wat…

> A lot of zigbee infrastructure also expect an internet connection.

Like what. I have several hundred zigbee devices of almost all category you can think of, and I have never come across such a requirement. I don't understand how that would even work.

Re: The Connectivity Standards Alliance Announces Zigbee 4.0 and Suzi

#37

Post by retSava »

not_that_d wrote: post #23

I don't understand people criticizing this. Didn't they read the article? The new Suzi stuff doesn't want to replace Zigbee, and the new zigbee version is backwards compatible. What is the pain there?

I would assume, yet _another_ standard. There are a bunch of them, and product builders are taking a long long time to properly implement, and often buggy. And they often result in the consumer need to buy yet another gateway/router, and learn the ins/outs and quirks of another protocol that won't work properly in years, all the while two new competing standards have been introduced. An example - how long has Matter existed? Yet, it hasn't had a profile for smart plugs with energy monitoring (eg the 12$ IKEA one). Such a basic use case...

And all this so Samsung et al can siphon off more user data and show more ads.

I fully understand the consumer viewpoint.

But, it's great news imo with sub-GHz (Suzi)!

Re: The Connectivity Standards Alliance Announces Zigbee 4.0 and Suzi

#38

Post by microtonal »

eisa01 wrote: post #35

So this will compete with Z-wave, that already operate in the 800-900 MHz space? It's very confusing with a new Zigbee standard when I thought it was being replaced with Thread

It's very confusing with a new Zigbee standard when I thought it was being replaced with Thread

And from the same organization that co-designed and promotes Matter.

Personally, I'm very happy that Zigbee continues to be developed. I am not very enthusiastic about everything being IP addressable (even if it is just ULA) and the convoluted Thread flow where a bunch of border routers require you to initiate the pairing with a phone over BLE to hand it over to the router. I have an Eve Energy Thread + Matter plug and it requires many takes to pair it correctly. Most Zigbee devices are just a matter of permitting join on your coordinator and holding/pressing the pairing button on the device.

I wish that Apple and Google would just add a Zigbee coordinator (or just leave home automation to others) and put some effort into supporting a wide variety of devices rather than trying to disrupt a perfectly working standard. They often cannot even bother implementing the latest Matter spec timely.

Re: The Connectivity Standards Alliance Announces Zigbee 4.0 and Suzi

#39

Post by microtonal »

brabel wrote: post #7
krackers wrote: post #2

I thought Threads was already the next generation of zigbee.

I hope Zigbee stays. It’s widely used and works really well. Matter may be even better but it also makes it really hard for manufacturers to actually make products that can be sold cheaply. Zigbee is just good enough and I believe the push to replace it has ulterior motives.

Yeah, I can just not wrap my brain around the Thread and Matter push. Zigbee works great, devices are affordable, there are many devices out there already. Also people who already have Zigbee will have to build an additional Thread mesh. This all seems so pointless unless there is another motive.

Re: The Connectivity Standards Alliance Announces Zigbee 4.0 and Suzi

#40

Post by microtonal »

simondotau wrote: post #19
tomtom1337 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the ikea zigbee devices going to stop being sold? Massive shame if so, they are extremely reliable and easy to use.

IKEA's whole smart home ecosystem is presently being overhauled from Zigbee to Thread/Matter, with a product availability gap in the meantime. https://www.ikea.com/global/en/newsroom/retail/the-new-smart...

What gap though? Our local IKEA has plenty of lights, smart plugs, etc. available still.
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