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The fate of "small" open source

nolanlawson.com

31–40 of 238 posts

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#31
post #14

I don’t think open source is going anywhere. It’s posed to get significantly stronger — as the devs which care about it learn how to leverage AI tools to make things that corporate greasemonkeys never had the inspiration to. Low quality code spammers are just marketing themselves for jobs where they can be themselves: soulless and devoid of creative impulse. That’s the thing: open source is the only place where the t…

> It’s posed to get significantly stronger It's really not. Every project of any significance is now fending off AI submissions from people who have not the slightest fucking clue about what is involved in working on long-running, difficult projects or how offensive it is to just slather some slop on a bug report and demand it is given scrutiny. Even at the 10,000 feet view it has wasted people's time because they ha…

Sounds like a lot of FUD to me — if major projects balk at the emergence of new classes of tools, perhaps the management strategy wasn’t resilient in the first place?

Further: sitting down to discuss how your project will adapt to change is never a waste of time, I’m surprised you stated it like that.

In such a setting, you’re working within a trusted party — and for a major project, that likely means extremely competent maintainers and contributors.

I don’t think these people will have any difficulty adapting to the usage of these tools …

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#32
> Sure, you could use blob-util, but then you’d be taking on an extra dependency, with unknown performance, maintenance, and supply-chain risks.

Use of an AI to write your code is also a form of dependency. When the LLM spits out code and you just dump it in your project with limited vetting, that's not really that different from vendoring a dependency. It has a different set of risks, but it still has risks.

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"when an LLM costs less, works faster and makes less mistakes"... indeed, but it doesn't follow at all that it's the fate of all programmers _now_... at least in my experience none of these things are true ATM.

Well, at the very least it costs less than asking intern to look for a lib doing something particular and give some examples... still about as accurate as the intern tho.

How many time has it happened for a company to actually ask an intern for a library?

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#35
post #14

I don’t think open source is going anywhere. It’s posed to get significantly stronger — as the devs which care about it learn how to leverage AI tools to make things that corporate greasemonkeys never had the inspiration to. Low quality code spammers are just marketing themselves for jobs where they can be themselves: soulless and devoid of creative impulse. That’s the thing: open source is the only place where the t…

> It’s posed to get significantly stronger It's really not. Every project of any significance is now fending off AI submissions from people who have not the slightest fucking clue about what is involved in working on long-running, difficult projects or how offensive it is to just slather some slop on a bug report and demand it is given scrutiny. Even at the 10,000 feet view it has wasted people's time because they ha…

This isn't an AI issue. It is a care issue. People shouldn't submit PRs to project where they don't care enough to understand the project they are submitting to or the code they are submitting. This has always been a problem, there is nothing new. The thing that is new is more people can get to a point where they can submit regardless of their care or understanding. A lot of people are trying to gild their resume by saying they contributed to a project. Blaming AI is blaming the wrong problem. AI is a a tool like a spreadsheet. Project owners should instead be working ways to filter out careless code more efficiently.

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#36

In the U.S., anything machine generated is uncopyrightable. Why would you put uncopyrightable code into your codebase?

Why wouldn't you? Your codebase (if you're a business) exists to make you money, people being able to copy some unknown portions of it without further license if they somehow legally get their hands on a copy of it seems entirely irrelevant.

PS. I think this is much less clear and much less settled law than you are suggesting.

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#37
> Claude’s version is pretty close to the blob-util version (unsurprising, since it was probably trained on it!).

AI are thieves!

> I don’t know which direction we’re going in with AI (well, ~80% of us; to the remaining holdouts, I salute you and wish you godspeed!), but I do think it’s a future where we prize instant answers over teaching and understanding.

Google ruined its search engine years ago before AI already.

The big problem I see is that we have become WAY too dependent on these mega-corporations. Which browser are people using? Typically chrome. An evil company writes the code. And soon it will fire the remaining devs and replace them with AI. Which is kind of fitting.

> Even now there’s a movement toward putting documentation in an llms.txt file, so you can just point an agent at it and save your brain cells the effort of deciphering English prose. (Is this even documentation anymore? What is documentation?)

Documentation in general sucks. But documentation is also a hard problem.

I love examples. Small snippets. FAQs. Well, many projects barely have these.

Look at ruby webassembly/wasm or ruby opal. Their documentation is about 99% useless. Or, even worse - rack in ruby. And I did not notice this in the past, in part because e. g. StackOverflow still worked, there were many blogs which helped fill up missing information too. Well all of that is largely gone now or has been slurped up by AI spam.

> the era of small, low-value libraries like blob-util is over. They were already on their way out thanks to Node.js and the browser taking on more and more of their functionality (see node:glob, structuredClone, etc.), but LLMs are the final nail in the coffin.

I still think they have value, but looking at organisations such as rubygems.org disrupt the ecosystem and bleeding it dry by kicking out small hobbyists, I think there is indeed a trend towards eliminating the silly solo devs who think their unpaid spare time is not worthy of anything at all, yet the big organisations eagerly throw down more and more restrictions onto them (my favourite example is the arbitrary 100k download limit for gems hosted at rubygems.org, but look at the new shiny corporate rules on rubygems.org - this is when corporations take over the infrastructure and control it. Ironically this also happened to pypi and they admit this indirectly: https://blog.pypi.org/posts/2023-05-25-securing-pypi-with-2f... - of course they deny that corporations control pypi now, but by claiming otherwise they admit it, because this is how hobbyists get eliminated. Just throw more and more restrictions at them without paying them. Sooner or later they decide to do something better with their time.)

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#39

This author assumes that open sourcing a package only delivers value if is added as a dependency. Publicly sharing code with a permissive license is still useful and a radical idea.

I do agree with this, but there are some caveats. At the end of the day it is time people invest into a project. And that is often unpaid time.

Now, that does not mean it has no value, but it is a trade-off. After about 14 years, for instance, I retired permanently from rubygems.org in 2024 due to the 100k download limit (and now I wouldn't use it after the shameful moves RubyCentral did, as well as the new shiny corporate rules with which I couldn't operate within anyway; it is now a private structure owned by Shopify. Good luck finding people who want to invest their own unpaid spare time into anything tainted by corporations here).

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#40
post #27

> the era of small, low-value libraries like blob-util is over. Thankfully (not against blob-util specifically because I've never intentionally used it), I wouldn't completely blame llms either since languages like Go never had this dependency hell. npm is a security nightmare not just because of npm the package manager, because the culture of the language rewards behavior such as "left-pad". Instead of writing endle…

But as Go puts it: “A little copying is better than a little dependency.” https://go-proverbs.github.io/

Yep something like blob util could be a blog post or a gist (or several stack overflow answers). And a lot of NPM library falls under that. They always have the anemic standard library of JavaScript forgetting that the C library is even smaller.
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