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Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

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Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#31
post #29
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://transformer-circuits.pub/2022/toy_model/index.html https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.03635 EDIT: don't have time to write it up, but here's gemini 3 with a short explanation: To simulate the brain's efficiency using Transformer-like architectures, we would need to fundamentally alter three layers of the stack: the *mathematical representation* (moving to high dimensions), the *computational model* (moving to sparsit…

I’m not sure why you’re talking about efficiency when the question is “do sparse models work better than dense models?” The answer is no, they don’t. Even the old LTH paper you cited trains a dense model and then tries to prune it without too much quality loss. Pruning is a well known method to compress models - to make them smaller and faster, not better.

Before we had proper GPUs everyone said the same thing about Neural Networks.

Current model architectures are optimized to get the most out of GPUs, which is why we have transformers dominating as they're mostly large dense matrix multiplies.

There's plenty of work showing transformers improve with inner dimension size but it's not feasible to scale them up further because it blows up parameter and activation sizes (including KV caches) so people to turn to low rank ("sparse") decompositions like MLA.

Lottery ticket hypothesis shows that most of the weights in current models are redundant and that we could get away with much smaller sparse models, but currently there's no advantage to doing so because on GPUs you still end up doing dense multiplies.

Plenty of mech interp work shows that models are forced to commingle different concepts to fit them into the "low" dimensional vector space. (https://www.neelnanda.io/mechanistic-interpretability/glossa...)

https://arxiv.org/abs/2210.06313

https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.01610

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#32
I worked on a similiar problem about a year ago, on large dense models.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/PkeB4TLxgaNnSmddg/scaling-sp...

In both cases, the goal is to actually learn a concrete circuit inside a network that solves specific Python next-token prediction tasks. We each end up with a crisp wiring diagram saying “these are the channels/neurons/heads that implement this particular bit of Python reasoning.”

Both projects cast circuit discovery as a gradient-based selection problem over a fixed base model. We train a mask that picks out a sparse subset of computational nodes as “the circuit,” while the rest are ablated. Their work learns masks over a weight-sparse transformer; ours learns masks over SAE latents and residual channels. But in both cases, the key move is the same: use gradients to optimize which nodes are included, rather than relying purely on heuristic search or attribution patching. Both approaches also use a gradual hardening schedule (continuous masks that are annealed or sharpened over time) so that we can keep gradients useful early on, then spend extra compute to push the mask towards a discrete, minimal circuit that still reproduces the model’s behavior.

The similarities extend to how we validate and stress-test the resulting circuits. In both projects, we drill down enough to notice “bugs” or quirks in the learned mechanism and to deliberately break it: by making simple, semantically small edits to the Python source, we can systematically cause the pruned circuit to fail and those failures generalize to the unpruned network. That gives us some confidence that we’re genuinely capturing the specific mechanism the model is using.

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#33
post #30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the lead author, why do you think so?

I'm not an expert at hardware, so take this with a grain of salt, but there are two main reasons: - Discrete optimisation is always going to be harder than continuous optimization. Learning the right sparsity mask is fundamentally a very discrete operation. So even just matching fully continuous dense models in optimization efficiency is likely to be difficult. Though perhaps we can get some hope from the fact that M…

Yes it would require completely new hardware and most likely ditching gradient descent for alternative optimization methods, though I'm not convinced that we'd need to turn to discrete optimization.

Some recent works that people might find interesting:

- Evolution Strategies at the Hyperscale - https://eshyperscale.github.io/

- Introducing Nested Learning: A new ML paradigm for continual learning - https://research.google/blog/introducing-nested-learning-a-n...

- Less is More: Recursive Reasoning with Tiny Networks - https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.04871

- Nemotron Elastic: Towards Efficient Many-in-One Reasoning LLMs - https://arxiv.org/abs/2511.16664

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#34
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the best open source LLMs right now use mixture-of-experts, which is a form of sparsity. They only use a small fraction of their parameters to process any given token. Examples: - GPT OSS 120b - Kimi K2 - DeepSeek R1

Mixture of experts sparsity is very different from weight sparsity. In a mixture of experts, all weights are nonzero, but only a small fraction get used on each input. On the other hand, weight sparsity means only very few weights are nonzero, but every weight is used on every input. Of course, the two techniques can also be combined.

Yes, mixture of experts is basically structured activation sparsity. You could imagine concatenating the expert matrices into a huge block matrix and multiplying by an input vector where only the coefficients corresponding to activated experts are nonzero.

From that perspective, it's disappointing that the paper only enforces modest amounts of activation sparsity, since holding the maximum number of nonzero coefficients constant while growing the number of dimensions seems like a plausible avenue to increase representational capacity without correspondingly higher computation cost.

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#35
post #31
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure why you’re talking about efficiency when the question is “do sparse models work better than dense models?” The answer is no, they don’t. Even the old LTH paper you cited trains a dense model and then tries to prune it without too much quality loss. Pruning is a well known method to compress models - to make them smaller and faster, not better.

Before we had proper GPUs everyone said the same thing about Neural Networks. Current model architectures are optimized to get the most out of GPUs, which is why we have transformers dominating as they're mostly large dense matrix multiplies. There's plenty of work showing transformers improve with inner dimension size but it's not feasible to scale them up further because it blows up parameter and activation sizes (…

Yes, we know that large dense layers work better than small dense layers (up to a point). We also know how to train large dense models and then prune them. But we don’t know how to train large sparse models to be better than large dense models. If someone figures it out then we can talk about building hardware for it.

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#36
post #9

We really need new hardware optimized for sparse compute. Deep Learning models would work way better with much higher dimensional sparse vectors but current hardware only excels at dense GMMs and structured sparsity.

My last dive into matrix computations was years ago, but the need was the same back then. We could sparsify matrices pretty easily, but the infrastructure was lacking. Some things never change.

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#37
Related:

From Tokens to Thoughts: How LLMs and Humans Trade Compression for Meaning – https://arxiv.org/pdf/2505.17117 (Lecun/Jurafsky)

> Large Language Models (LLMs) demonstrate striking linguistic capabilities that suggest semantic understanding (Singh et al., 2024; Li et al., 2024). Yet, a critical question remains unanswered: Do 1arXiv:2505.17117v5 [cs.CL] 25 Sep 2025LLMs navigate the compression-meaning trade-off similarly to humans, or do they employ fundamentally different representational strategies? This question matters because true understanding, which goes beyond surface-level mimicry, requires representations that balance statistical efficiency with semantic richness (Tversky, 1977; Rosch, 1973b).

> To address this question, we apply Rate-Distortion Theory (Shannon, 1948) and Information Bottleneck principles (Tishby et al., 2000) to systematically compare LLM and human conceptual structures. We digitize and release seminal cognitive psychology datasets (Rosch, 1973b; 1975; McCloskey & Glucksberg, 1978), which are foundational studies that shaped our understanding of human categorization but were previously unavailable in a machine-readable form. These benchmarks, comprising 1,049 items across 34 categories with both membership and typicality ratings, offer unprecedented empirical grounding for evaluating whether LLMs truly understand concepts as humans do. It also offers much better quality data than the current crowdsourcing paradigm.

From typicality tests in the paper above, we can jump to:

The Guppy Effect as Interference – https://arxiv.org/abs/1208.2362

> One can refer to the situation wherein people estimate the typicality of an exemplar of the concept combination as more extreme than it is for one of the constituent concepts in a conjunctive combination as overextension. One can refer to the situation wherein people estimate the typicality of the exemplar for the concept conjunction as higher than that of both constituent concepts as double overextension. We posit that overextension is not a violation of the classical logic of conjunction, but that it signals the emergence of a whole new concept. The aim of this paper is to model the Guppy Effect as an interference effect using a mathematical representation in a complex Hilbert space and the formalism of quantum theory to represent states and calculate probabilities. This builds on previous work that shows that Bell Inequalities are violated by concepts [7, 8] and in particular by concept combinations that exhibit the Guppy Effect [1, 2, 3, 9, 10], and add to the investigation of other approaches using interference effects in cognition [11, 12, 13].

And from quantum interferences

Quantum-like contextuality in large language models – https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/epdf/10.1098/rspa.202...

> This paper provides the first large-scale experimental evidence for contextuality in the large language model BERT. We constructed a linguistic schema modelled over a contextual quantum scenario, instantiated it in the Simple English Wikipedia, and extracted probability distributions for the instances. This led to the discovery of sheaf-contextual and CbD contextual instances. We prove that these contextual instances arise from semantically similar words by deriving an equation that relates degrees of contextuality to the Euclidean distance of BERT’s embedding vectors.

How can large language models become more human – https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10196296/1/2024.cmcl-1...

> Psycholinguistic experiments reveal that efficiency of human language use is founded on predictions at both syntactic and lexical levels. Previous models of human prediction exploiting LLMs have used an information theoretic measure called surprisal, with success on naturalistic text in a wide variety of languages, but under-performance on challenging text such as garden path sentences. This paper introduces a novel framework that combines the lexical predictions of an LLM with the syntactic structures provided by a dependency parser. The framework gives rise to an Incompatibility Fraction. When tested on two garden path datasets, it correlated well with human reading times, distinguished between easy and hard garden path, and outperformed surprisal.

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#38
post #37

Related: From Tokens to Thoughts: How LLMs and Humans Trade Compression for Meaning – https://arxiv.org/pdf/2505.17117 (Lecun/Jurafsky) > Large Language Models (LLMs) demonstrate striking linguistic capabilities that suggest semantic understanding (Singh et al., 2024; Li et al., 2024). Yet, a critical question remains unanswered: Do 1arXiv:2505.17117v5 [cs.CL] 25 Sep 2025LLMs navigate the compression-meaning trade-of…

Most LM work implicitly uses surprisal = -log p(w | prefix) as the processing cost. But psycholinguistics keeps finding cases (garden-path sentences, etc.) where human difficulty is less about the next word being unlikely and more about how much of the current parse / interpretation has to be torn down and rebuilt. That’s essentially what Wang et al. formalize with their Incompatibility Fraction: they combine an LLM’s lexical predictions with a dependency parser, build a sheaf-style structure over prefixes, and measure how inconsistent the local parse distributions are with any single global structure. That incompatibility correlates with human reading times and distinguishes easy vs hard garden paths better than surprisal alone.

If you take that seriously, you end up with a different "surprise" objective: not just "this token was unlikely", but "this token forced a big update of my latent structure". In information-theoretic terms, the distortion term in a Rate–Distortion / Information Bottleneck objective stops being pure log-loss and starts to look like a backtracking cost on your semantic/structural state.

Now look at Shani et al.’s From Tokens to Thoughts paper: they compare LLM embeddings to classic human typicality/membership data (Rosch, Hampton, etc.) using RDT/IB, and show that LLMs sit in a regime of aggressive compression: broad categories line up with humans, but fine-grained typicality and "weird" members get squashed. Humans, by contrast, keep higher-entropy, messier categories – they "waste bits" to preserve contextual nuance and prototype structure.

Quantum cognition folks like Aerts have been arguing for years that this messiness is not a bug: phenomena like the Guppy effect (where "guppy" is a so-so Pet and a so-so Fish but a very typical Pet-Fish) are better modelled as interference in a Hilbert space, i.e. as emergent concepts rather than classical intersections. Lo et al. then show that large LMs (BERT) already exhibit quantum-like contextuality in their probability distributions: thousands of sheaf-contextual and tens of millions of CbD-contextual instances, with the degree of contextuality tightly related to embedding distances between competing words.

Put those together and you get an interesting picture:

Current LMs do live in a contextual / interference-ish regime at the probabilistic level, but their embedding spaces are still optimized for pointwise predictive compression, not for minimizing re-interpretation cost over time.

If you instead trained them under a "surprise = prediction error + structural backtracking cost" objective (something like log-loss + sheaf incompatibility over parses/meanings), the optimal representations wouldn’t be maximally compressed clusters. They’d be the ones that make structural updates cheap: more typed, factorized, role-sensitive latent spaces where meaning is explicitly organized for recomposition rather than for squeezing out every last bit of predictive efficiency.

That’s exactly the intuition behind DisCoCat / categorical compositional distributional semantics: you force grammar and semantics to share a compact closed category, treat sentence meaning as a tensor contraction over typed word vectors, and design the embedding spaces so that composition is a simple linear map. You’re trading off fine-grained, context-specific "this token in this situation" information for a geometry that makes it cheap to build and rebuild structured meanings.

Wang et al.’s Incompatibility Fraction is basically a first step toward such an objective, Shani et al. quantify how far LMs are from the "human" point on the compression–meaning trade-off, Aerts/Lo show that both humans and LMs already live in a quantum/contextual regime, and DisCoCat gives a concrete target for what "structured, recomposable embeddings" could look like. If we ever switch from optimizing pure cross-entropy to "how painful is it to revise my world-model when this token arrives?", I’d expect the learned representations to move away from super-compact clusters and towards something much closer to those typed, compositional spaces.

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#39
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has been plenty of evidence over the year. I don't have my bibliography handy right now, but you can find them looking for sparse training or lottery ticket hypothesis papers. The intuition is that ANNs make better predictions on high dimensional data, sparse weights can train the sparsity pattern as you train the weights, that the effective part of dense models are actually sparse (CFR pruning/sparsification r…

I could not find any evidence that sparse models work better than dense models.

What do you mean by work better here? If it's for better accuracy then no they are not better at the same weight dimensions.

The big thing is that sparse models allow you to train models with significantly larger dimensionality, blowing up the dimensions several orders of magnitudes. More dimensions leading to better results does not seem to be under a lot of contention, the open questions are more about quantifying that. It's simply not shown experimentally because the hardware is not there to train it.

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#40
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could not find any evidence that sparse models work better than dense models.

What do you mean by work better here? If it's for better accuracy then no they are not better at the same weight dimensions. The big thing is that sparse models allow you to train models with significantly larger dimensionality, blowing up the dimensions several orders of magnitudes. More dimensions leading to better results does not seem to be under a lot of contention, the open questions are more about quantifying…

The big thing is that sparse models allow you to train models with significantly larger dimensionality, blowing up the dimensions several orders of magnitudes.

Do you have any evidence to support this statement? Or are you imagining some not yet invented algorithms running on some not yet invented hardware?

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