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US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

thedailybeast.com

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Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#31

Post by actionfromafar »

grebc wrote: post #23
nostrademons wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how the effects of filter bubbles are playing out here. Everyone believes that they have the upper hand and the majority of the American people are on their side, because computerized personalization shows them only opinions from people who agree with them. As a result, they think that the negative popular opinion for the shutdown will fall primarily on the other party, and so it is rational for them…

Reminds me of the dysfunction the Roman Republic towards the end of it’s time. It’s not unique to the US however, I think maybe we are all approaching the end of the line for current political/civil systems without further work that no one seems interested in taking.

That Meta and Twitter seems interested in.

The tail isn’t wagging the dog anymore, the tail(s) are the dog at this point.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#32

Post by jacquesm »

ecshafer wrote: post #29
slg wrote: post #16

I know many of the people reading this will think I'm being hysterical. But there was a small voice in the back of my mind when the shutdown started wondering whether that version of the American government would ever reopen and that voice has started to become much louder in recent days. Specifically the combination of this, the handling of SNAP benefits, and this all happening in November just seems intentionally d…

[flagged]

You have your parties muddled up. The democrats are not in power.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#33

Post by [deleted] »

slg wrote: post #16

I know many of the people reading this will think I'm being hysterical. But there was a small voice in the back of my mind when the shutdown started wondering whether that version of the American government would ever reopen and that voice has started to become much louder in recent days. Specifically the combination of this, the handling of SNAP benefits, and this all happening in November just seems intentionally d…

[deleted]

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#34

Post by dylan604 »

montroser wrote: post #10

Curbing air traffic at major airports by 10% -- seems like this change alone would cause enough upheaval and disruption to everyday operations that it would offset any incremental relief from slightly lower traffic volume.

I heard a radio report that said something like 25,000-30,000 flights a day, so 10% would still be 2-3 thousand flights per day canceled. They said a majority of these would be the smaller legs from smaller airports to the larger hubs. The flights from hub to larger cities would be less impacted. However it breaks down, 2-3 thousand flights a day is a lot of flight crews not working, and similar cascading effects. So not only an inconvenience for travelers, but some people are going to take a financial hit because of this

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#35

Post by inglor_cz »

pwthornton wrote: post #25
8note wrote: post #8

why are traffic controllers government employees at all? wouldn't it be better for the government to maintain a standards/licensing body and only have a couple on staff as a "traffic controllers of last resort" during emergencies? when an traffic controller quits, what job can they go to? clearly not another airport

It's probably because a lot of smaller airports in the middle of nowhere would be hard to get coverage for. The current system sends controllers to where they are needed, not to where people want to work. Now, should more productive parts of the country be subsidizing air travel in less productive parts of the country? That's for you to decide.

"Now, should more productive parts of the country be subsidizing air travel in less productive parts of the country? That's for you to decide."

I would say "no", personally. In the absence of a subsidy, the network of the rural airports would likely become sparser, but the surviving ones would have better economy and, as a result, infrastructure too.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#36

Post by Waterluvian »

slg wrote: post #16

I know many of the people reading this will think I'm being hysterical. But there was a small voice in the back of my mind when the shutdown started wondering whether that version of the American government would ever reopen and that voice has started to become much louder in recent days. Specifically the combination of this, the handling of SNAP benefits, and this all happening in November just seems intentionally d…

The sooner things become intolerably broken in the U.S. the better off I think the rest of the world is. The U.S. kind of scares me right now. So much power, wielded by deeply incompetent, broken, and evil people. And those who aren't those things are demonstrably too weak to do anything about it. I have a sense that things will only improve once they hit an intolerable low. And the longer it takes for that to happen, the more normalized it will become for all of those people. Basically: I really hope the current regime boils the water too fast.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#37

Post by docdeek »

lesuorac wrote: post #24
nostrademons wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how the effects of filter bubbles are playing out here. Everyone believes that they have the upper hand and the majority of the American people are on their side, because computerized personalization shows them only opinions from people who agree with them. As a result, they think that the negative popular opinion for the shutdown will fall primarily on the other party, and so it is rational for them…

[flagged]

Polling suggests that independents don’t “overwhelmingly" blame the GOP. It’s split 48/32/14 GOP/Dem/Equal

"Democrats and Republicans hold each other's party more responsible for the government shutdown. Among independents, 48 percent think Republicans in Congress are more responsible, while 32 percent think Democrats in Congress are more responsible and 14 percent volunteered that they think both parties are equally responsible.”

https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3938

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#38

Post by mayneack »

slashdev wrote: post #18
montroser wrote: post #2

What is Trump's endgame here? Everyone stranded for Thanksgiving, poor kids going hungry, all for...what, exactly?

Why do you blame Trump for the shutdown? Isn't it caused by Congress basically failing to agree on a funding continuation? (I think it's been ages since they could actually go further and agree on a budget). Government shutdowns are common under both Republican and Democrat administrations. You can say he refuses to compromise, but clearly so does the other side, hence the impasse.

Well in this case the executive branch isn't even following congressionally appropriations, so one could argue that this particular shut down is more caused by the president than any other in history.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#39

Post by estearum »

inglor_cz wrote: post #28
bobthepanda wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kind of is https://www.faa.gov/about/budget/aatf The problem is that tax collection also happens with congressional approval.

This seems to be a somewhat inefficient system. There is no absolute need to consider aviation fees to be taxes and collect them through a federal agency. Individual airports should be capable of financing their local ATC as they see fit, be it their own airport fees or, IDK, a surcharge on hamburgers sold in the local McD or a gift from a wealthy sponsor; and they should only have a duty to maintain certain technica…

Are you certain maintaining those technical standards would be much more efficient than the current system?

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#40

Post by ajross »

ecshafer wrote: post #29
slg wrote: post #16

I know many of the people reading this will think I'm being hysterical. But there was a small voice in the back of my mind when the shutdown started wondering whether that version of the American government would ever reopen and that voice has started to become much louder in recent days. Specifically the combination of this, the handling of SNAP benefits, and this all happening in November just seems intentionally d…

[flagged]

Government only works via compromise. Yes, either side could capitulate.

Honestly "give this popular subsidy a vote" seems more like compromise to me than your idea.

Also, and mostly unrelated: does anyone find it funny that the ACA stopped being "Obamacare" the instant it became popular?

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