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Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

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Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#31

Post by rsingel »

stego-tech wrote: post #26
benced wrote: post #3

Rare comparative W for American ISPs?

Not really, as US ISPs have been repeatedly trying to game the system into becoming landlords for decades. The difference is, ironically, their own self-imposed monopolies: Comcast may be a T1 ISP, but they’re largely a monopoly in the markets they serve. Same goes for Verizon, Spectrum, Cox, TDS, etc. The end result is a sort of “forced cooperation” with each other, though occasionally one will try to extort the oth…

California's net neutrality law bans these kinds of paid interconnections, but they likely exist as all these deals are wrapped in 15 layers of NDAs

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#32

Post by fluoridation »

Telaneo wrote: post #21
lukan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you're paying for a 1Gbps connection" That's why you are paying for a "up to" 1Gbps connection. (I think it was already a struggle that they had to put the "up to" in the big advertisement)

Surely there's a reasonable expectation that Netflix would work at decent speeds, especially given that Netflix's infrastructure, nor the network load as a whole are to blame, but rather the specific ISP bureaucracy? Getting 1/1000 the listed speed does not strike me as something even a 75 year old computer neophyte of a judge would take kindly too, unless it were for very good reasons.

I don't think there really is much that can be done. Even under ideal conditions, an ISP could only possibly guarantee the advertised link speed between you and their routers, not between you and any particular node on the Internet. Is it possible an ISP might be doing things that harm the QoS? Yeah, sure. But the angle to approach that problem is not by complaining about instances of limited bandwidth.

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#33

Post by growt »

tracker1 wrote: post #12
Lio wrote: post #7

Is there anything that Vodafone customers can do legally to punish Vodafone or not delivering on their broadband contracts? If you're paying for a 1Gbps connection and Netflix is only able to stream to you at 0.93 Mbps because Vodafone or Inter.link are choking off the supply, surely that's breach of contract on Vodafone's part? I'm sure Cory Doctorow has a word for what's happening here.

Are there competing options, or are they a monopoly?

Afaik almost a monopoly: there is Deutsche Telekom which does the same thing and Vodafone. I think apart from some local providers almost everybody else is just a reseller of one of the two.

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#34

Post by fweimer »

Is doing business with Inter.link really structurally different from getting connectivity to an exchange like DE-CIX and doing business there? I know that in theory, you get settlement-free peering at exchanges, but only for those networks that participate.

And who funds Inter.link? Their publicly available balance sheet shows significant, growing debts to a linked company, but it doesn't mention its name.

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#35

Post by aktuel »

tracker1 wrote: post #12
Lio wrote: post #7

Is there anything that Vodafone customers can do legally to punish Vodafone or not delivering on their broadband contracts? If you're paying for a 1Gbps connection and Netflix is only able to stream to you at 0.93 Mbps because Vodafone or Inter.link are choking off the supply, surely that's breach of contract on Vodafone's part? I'm sure Cory Doctorow has a word for what's happening here.

Are there competing options, or are they a monopoly?

Depends on the region. Often there are smaller regional companies providing fiber internet. Prices for these fiber connections a still somewhat higher than the cheapest vodafone tier, but you also get better service for your money.

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#36

Post by bbzylstra »

I'm surprised to read an obviously AI written article ("This isn't about efficiency—it's about extraction") from a tech/news site. Does anyone else find this weird? It make me question the editors note about how much background research was actually done.

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#37

Post by littlestymaar »

The disclaimer at the top of the article is really mind blowing:

> We may have failed in some areas to grasp the issue entirely. The reader is advised that not everything might be correct and you should follow the sources and conduct your own research to get an adequate understanding of the subject at hand.

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#38

Post by unethical_ban »

bbzylstra wrote: post #36

I'm surprised to read an obviously AI written article ("This isn't about efficiency—it's about extraction") from a tech/news site. Does anyone else find this weird? It make me question the editors note about how much background research was actually done.

It didn't seem AI to me.

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#39

Post by stego-tech »

danogentili wrote: post #29
stego-tech wrote: post #28

The solution - as always - is regulation. ISPs typically already have very generous business models with widespread monopolies on customers, overwhelming barriers to entry for new companies, and a lack of rate controls allowing then to price arbitrarily - all of which supports immensely profitable businesses without the need for additional extraction of capital from other parties. Regulators and consumers alike shoul…

The current trend in govt regulation is actually going in the opposite direction, with telecom lobbies in Europe pushing for "fair share" (pretty much an implementation through law of what Deutsche Telekom and Vodafone Germany are doing right now) through the Digital Networks Act. South Korea pioneered "fair share" govt regulations in 2016 (which caused Twitch to exit the market in 2024 due the exorbitant "fair share…

Because western governments (and those whose governments were modeled from western regimes - like post-war South Korea and Japan) have become victim to regulatory capture and corruption. It’s why the FCC has repeatedly killed, blocked, or reversed reforms like net neutrality or “nutrition labels” on ISPs, and why South Korea gave in to “fair share” regulations that deterred further investment. Tech money is hugely influential, and the industry is almost exclusively made up of rent-seeking slumlords at this point, particularly at the top (Oracle, Microsoft, Google, Adobe, Apple, etc). It’s why DMCA reform is blocked, why pirates get jail time while AI grifts get a hand-wave, and why right-to-repair or data privacy remains a fractured and piecemeal reform instead of a national agenda item.

The problem isn’t regulation, but regulatory capture ensuring companies get the regulations they desire and benefit from.

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#40

Post by littlestymaar »

bbzylstra wrote: post #36

I'm surprised to read an obviously AI written article ("This isn't about efficiency—it's about extraction") from a tech/news site. Does anyone else find this weird? It make me question the editors note about how much background research was actually done.

It looks like the website was founded not so long ago, and I guess AI-generated slop is the only way to make a profitable web media nowadays.
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