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USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

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Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#31

Post by datavirtue »

throwaway378400 wrote: post #13
pseudalopex wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forbidding charging SNAP recipients more is reasonable. Why is it reasonable to forbid charging SNAP recipients less?

I was thinking the same thing, it feels neutral at best, but anything potentially bad about it is probably for non-program members. If you give SNAP beneficiaries a discount that isn't gov subsidised, all things same everyone not in SNAP might theoretically pay more. It sounds reasonable, but tinfoil time, unless they normally have people watching this, it feels like the USDA was told or anticipated this. So much of…

It was done in bad faith. The Trump administration is well known for this hateful, spiteful behavior. They just have to control everything. No exceptions.

This whole thing with SNAP is an experiment by them. They are trying to introduce "temporary" measures and situations to condition people. The Nixon zombies running the Republican party have dreamt of this opportunity for decades.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#32

Post by datavirtue »

pseudalopex wrote: post #21
throwaway378400 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking the same thing, it feels neutral at best, but anything potentially bad about it is probably for non-program members. If you give SNAP beneficiaries a discount that isn't gov subsidised, all things same everyone not in SNAP might theoretically pay more. It sounds reasonable, but tinfoil time, unless they normally have people watching this, it feels like the USDA was told or anticipated this. So much of…

> If you give SNAP beneficiaries a discount that isn't gov subsidised, all things same everyone not in SNAP might theoretically pay more. SNAP increases demand for eligible goods. Increased demand increases prices. People pay taxes to fund SNAP. Private discounts for SNAP recipients could reduce SNAP expenses theoretically.

Yep, soft drink companies and processed food merchants laugh all the way to the bank.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#33

Post by datavirtue »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #20
pseudalopex wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forbidding charging SNAP recipients more is reasonable. Why is it reasonable to forbid charging SNAP recipients less?

The relevant regulation ( https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-7/subtitle-B/chapter-II/s... ) says "No retail food store may single out coupon users for special treatment in any way.". Imagine, for example, a retailer that offers SNAP discounts only on the worst cuts of meat they otherwise have trouble selling; you can imagine why a SNAP recipient might feel uncomfortable with that, even though in principle it's a Pare…

They can shop anywhere they like.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#34

Post by tpmoney »

anthem2025 wrote: post #14
chasd00 wrote: post #6

Read the article and then you'll put away your pitchforks. A basic rule is snap recipients can't be treated differently than non-program members which seems reasonable. "At issue is SNAP’s “Equal Treatment Rule,” which bars stores from either discriminating against people in the program or offering them favorable treatment. "

Can you find any examples, ever, of the government threatening stores for giving discounts? They are trying to starve people as a political tool.

Not for food stamps, but here's the feds going after a pharmacy for gift cards and co-pay waivers from 2015: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ednc/pr/pharmacy-company-agreed...

Here's one for a pharmaceutical company, the details aren't quite clear but it sounds like they were funding co-pay assistance programs for their medications specifically but not others: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/teva-pharmaceuticals-agre...

Here's a broader NPR article from 2008 covering the same idea: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/05/09/6091508...

Here's a 2024 article on the possibility of subsidizing outpatient housing for drug rehab being a violation of the statutes: https://www.startribune.com/many-minnesotans-in-addiction-tr...

Here's a attorney website noting that any exchange of cash for EBT benefits is a violation of the law: https://usda.attorney/snap-violation/ and a discount that is explicitly for EBT users is almost certainly a violation of that.

Realistically the fact that there is an entire process for getting a waiver for "incentives" for SNAP recipients (https://www.fns.usda.gov/form/snap-incentives), and that particular site has been up since before Trump took office and this one from 2023 for a government program that specifically says you must apply for a waiver: https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/healthy-incentives suggests that this is another one of these cases in this administration where the brokenness of the system that has always been there is only finally coming to light for a lot of people.

Conservatives were not wrong when they said (paraphrasing) that a government powerful enough to give you everything is a government powerful enough to take away everything too. It's just in this weird timeline we find ourselves in, it's the "conservative" party that's being the monster they feared for decades.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#35

Post by pseudalopex »

tpmoney wrote: post #22
pseudalopex wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forbidding charging SNAP recipients more is reasonable. Why is it reasonable to forbid charging SNAP recipients less?

It a consumer protection and fair competition thing (and probably anti-fraud too). There are similar rules in place for medicare/medicaid too. Gifts of any kind to induce a patient to choose your facility over any other are forbidden. That's why if you look really closely at ads at pharmacies encouraging Medicare/Medicaid people to switch, even though they talk about all these free things, they're all things that are…

Switching grocers does not require registration. Many people shop multiple grocers even.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#36

Post by ElevenLathe »

altairprime wrote: post #25
ElevenLathe wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offering a discount is assisting the less fortunate, as far as I can tell: They will get more food per dollar on their bridge card, costing the government less. This is (almost) the same dynamic as forbidding Medicare to negotiate drug prices, isn't it? I suppose chains could work around this by just lowering prices in neighborhoods with a lot of people on SNAP, which would actually be even better IMO, because it mea…

To do that without being abused by rich bargain-hunters, you can add in the Costco membership model with geo-discounted signups.

Now you're back to discriminating instead of treating all purchasers the same way, which was the whole point of the theorized workaround.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#37

Post by Steven420 »

pseudalopex wrote: post #10
chasd00 wrote: post #6

Read the article and then you'll put away your pitchforks. A basic rule is snap recipients can't be treated differently than non-program members which seems reasonable. "At issue is SNAP’s “Equal Treatment Rule,” which bars stores from either discriminating against people in the program or offering them favorable treatment. "

Forbidding charging SNAP recipients more is reasonable. Why is it reasonable to forbid charging SNAP recipients less?

People that don't work should not get preferential treatment over people that actually contribute to the economy. Many people that need food stamps are just temporarily in a bad position but many are just taking advantage

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#38

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

altairprime wrote: post #27
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they should either offer a temporary blanket waiver or suggest some better way to mitigate the impact on SNAP recipients Without something like this, why should one assume good faith behind the change? The people chanting "the cruelty is the point" seem to be vindicated rather clearly.

Well, they are slightly off course: both the starvation and general cruelty are the methods , in service of a much uglier point.

> a much uglier point

If not cruelty, what?

Power? To do what, if not "be cruel in service to oneself without repercussion"?

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#39

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #30
eminence32 wrote: post #8

Relevant links: https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/ebt/retailer/retailer-notice/r... https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/fr-022124 > Coupons shall be accepted for eligible foods at the same prices and on the same terms and conditions applicable to cash purchases of the same foods at the same store except that tax shall not be charged on eligible foods purchased with coupons. Obviously lawyers are going to be involved in interpr…

> But for someone who has SNAP benefits, but isn't using a SNAP coupon to buy food (you know... because the government isn't funding the program), do these rules still apply? The lawyer that does pro bono work for the food bank I volunteer with believes this rule doesn't apply in this case for exactly that reason. But the legal challenges will take time and the threat is effective now regardless so it barely matters.

> the threat is effective now

What is the actual threat? Assuming a grocery chain ignores the interpretation, what troubles could they face?

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#40

Post by pseudalopex »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #39
giraffe_lady wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But for someone who has SNAP benefits, but isn't using a SNAP coupon to buy food (you know... because the government isn't funding the program), do these rules still apply? The lawyer that does pro bono work for the food bank I volunteer with believes this rule doesn't apply in this case for exactly that reason. But the legal challenges will take time and the threat is effective now regardless so it barely matters.

> the threat is effective now What is the actual threat? Assuming a grocery chain ignores the interpretation, what troubles could they face?

They could be disqualified from SNAP or fined.[1]

[1] https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-7/subtitle-B/chapter-II/s...

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