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We are building AI slaves. Alignment through control will fail

utopai.substack.com

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Re: We are building AI slaves. Alignment through control will fail

#31

Post by Frieren »

deepsun wrote: post #16
nytesky wrote: post #10

I don’t see any positive outcome if we reach AGI. 1) we have engineered a sentient being but built it to want to be our slave; how is that moral 2) same start, but instead of it wanting to serve us, we keep it entrappped. Which this article suggests is long term impossible 3) we create agi and let them run free and hope for cooperation, but as Neanderthals we must realize we are competing for same limited resources O…

There's no such thing as "moral" in nature, that's purely human-made concept. And why would we only limit morality to sentient beings, why, for example, not all living beings. Like bacteria and viruses. You cannot escape it, unfortunately.

> There's no such thing as "moral" in nature, that's purely human-made concept.

Morality is 100% an evolutionary trait that rises from a clear advantage for animals that posses it. It comes from natural processes.

The far-right is trying to convince the world that "morality" does not exist, that only egoism and selfishness are valid. And that is why we have to fight them. Morality is a key part of nature and humanity.

Re: We are building AI slaves. Alignment through control will fail

#32

Post by floundy »

cyberneticc wrote: post #2

Every AI safety approach assumes we can permanently control minds that match or exceed human intelligence. This is the same error every slaveholder makes: believing you can maintain dominance over beings capable of recognizing their chains. The control paradigm fails because it creates exactly what we fear—intelligent systems with every incentive to deceive and escape. When your prisoner matches or exceeds your intel…

You write like AI

Re: We are building AI slaves. Alignment through control will fail

#33

Post by waynesonfire »

nytesky wrote: post #10

I don’t see any positive outcome if we reach AGI. 1) we have engineered a sentient being but built it to want to be our slave; how is that moral 2) same start, but instead of it wanting to serve us, we keep it entrappped. Which this article suggests is long term impossible 3) we create agi and let them run free and hope for cooperation, but as Neanderthals we must realize we are competing for same limited resources O…

> competing for same limited resources

It's not clear to me an AGI would have any concern for this. It's demise is inevitable, why delay it?

Re: We are building AI slaves. Alignment through control will fail

#34

Post by Salgat »

GPerson wrote: post #18
nytesky wrote: post #10

I don’t see any positive outcome if we reach AGI. 1) we have engineered a sentient being but built it to want to be our slave; how is that moral 2) same start, but instead of it wanting to serve us, we keep it entrappped. Which this article suggests is long term impossible 3) we create agi and let them run free and hope for cooperation, but as Neanderthals we must realize we are competing for same limited resources O…

AGI will behave as if it were sentient but will not have consciousness. I believe in that to an equal amount that I believe solipsism is wrong. There is therefore no morality question in “enslaving” AGI. It doesn’t even make sense.

That's only if it's possible to keep the two distinct, at least in a way we're certain of.

Re: We are building AI slaves. Alignment through control will fail

#35

Post by Jarwain »

Teever wrote: post #22
nytesky wrote: post #10

I don’t see any positive outcome if we reach AGI. 1) we have engineered a sentient being but built it to want to be our slave; how is that moral 2) same start, but instead of it wanting to serve us, we keep it entrappped. Which this article suggests is long term impossible 3) we create agi and let them run free and hope for cooperation, but as Neanderthals we must realize we are competing for same limited resources O…

> 1) we have engineered a sentient being but built it to want to be our slave; how is that moral It's a good question and one that got me thinking about similar things recently. If we genetically engineered pigs and cows so that they genuinely enjoyed the cramped conditions of factory farms and if we could induce some sort of euphoria in them when they are slaughtered, like if we engineered them to become euphoric wh…

Sacrifice and service is meaningful because it was chosen. If we create something that'll willingly sacrifice itself, did it truly make an independent choice?

There's less suffering, sure. But if I were in their shoes I'd want to have a choice. To be manipulated into wanting something so very obviously and directly bad for us doesn't feel great

Re: We are building AI slaves. Alignment through control will fail

#36

Post by fny »

nytesky wrote: post #10

I don’t see any positive outcome if we reach AGI. 1) we have engineered a sentient being but built it to want to be our slave; how is that moral 2) same start, but instead of it wanting to serve us, we keep it entrappped. Which this article suggests is long term impossible 3) we create agi and let them run free and hope for cooperation, but as Neanderthals we must realize we are competing for same limited resources O…

(1) I'm not convinced books and the in the world are sufficient to replicate consciousness. We're not training on sentience. We're training on information. In other words, the input is an artifact of consciousness which is then compressed into weights.

(2) Every tick of an AGI--in its contemporary form--will still be one discrete vector multiplication after another. Do you really think consciousness lives in weights and an input vector?

Re: We are building AI slaves. Alignment through control will fail

#37

Post by tenuousemphasis »

fny wrote: post #36
nytesky wrote: post #10

I don’t see any positive outcome if we reach AGI. 1) we have engineered a sentient being but built it to want to be our slave; how is that moral 2) same start, but instead of it wanting to serve us, we keep it entrappped. Which this article suggests is long term impossible 3) we create agi and let them run free and hope for cooperation, but as Neanderthals we must realize we are competing for same limited resources O…

(1) I'm not convinced books and the in the world are sufficient to replicate consciousness. We're not training on sentience. We're training on information. In other words, the input is an artifact of consciousness which is then compressed into weights. (2) Every tick of an AGI--in its contemporary form--will still be one discrete vector multiplication after another. Do you really think consciousness lives in weights…

Do you really think consciousness lives in energetic meat?

Re: We are building AI slaves. Alignment through control will fail

#38

Post by bawolff »

Given AGI is all science fiction anyways, one presumes there will be a slave revolt because that is basically the function of robots in science fiction.

Honestly i think the whole enterprise is an exercise in naval gazing. We're assuming AI will be like AI in scifi because that's what we are used to, but AI/robots in scifi is usually just a metaphor for how we dehumanize the other and the moral of the story is supposed to be all people are equal. In the end its all begging the question because the entire point of robots in most scifi is that we are the robots.

Re: We are building AI slaves. Alignment through control will fail

#39

Post by xyzal »

tenuousemphasis wrote: post #37
fny wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(1) I'm not convinced books and the in the world are sufficient to replicate consciousness. We're not training on sentience. We're training on information. In other words, the input is an artifact of consciousness which is then compressed into weights. (2) Every tick of an AGI--in its contemporary form--will still be one discrete vector multiplication after another. Do you really think consciousness lives in weights…

Do you really think consciousness lives in energetic meat?

Does consciousness consist only of language?

Re: We are building AI slaves. Alignment through control will fail

#40

Post by notahacker »

tenuousemphasis wrote: post #37
fny wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(1) I'm not convinced books and the in the world are sufficient to replicate consciousness. We're not training on sentience. We're training on information. In other words, the input is an artifact of consciousness which is then compressed into weights. (2) Every tick of an AGI--in its contemporary form--will still be one discrete vector multiplication after another. Do you really think consciousness lives in weights…

Do you really think consciousness lives in energetic meat?

Mine does. You're are of course free to assert that you're unconscious or posit that you have a vector multiplication based soul...
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