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AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

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Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#31

Post by [deleted] »

bilekas wrote: post #20
jagged-chisel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget? You have to hire people for that. We are a software organization. We build software. If we rent in the cloud, there is less HR hassle - hiring, raises, bonuses, benefits, firing … none of that headache involved with the cloud. Technically? Totally doable. But the owners prefer renting in the cloud over the people-related issues of hiring.

> Forget? You have to hire people for that. We are a software organization. We build software. You don't need to hire dedicated people full time. It could even be outsourced and then a small contract for maintenance. It's the same argument you could say for "accounting persons", or "HR persons" - "We are a software organisation!" - Personally I don't buy the argument.

[deleted]

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#33

Post by chasd00 »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #18
bilekas wrote: post #11

I'm so surprised there is so much pushback against this.. AWS is extremely expensive. The use cases for setting up your system or service entirely in AWS are more rare than people seem to realise. Maybe I'm just the old man screaming at cloud (no pun intended) but when did people forget how to run a baremetal server ? > We have 730+ days with 99.993% measured availability and we also escaped AWS region wide downtime…

Forget? You have to hire people for that. We are a software organization. We build software. If we rent in the cloud, there is less HR hassle - hiring, raises, bonuses, benefits, firing … none of that headache involved with the cloud. Technically? Totally doable. But the owners prefer renting in the cloud over the people-related issues of hiring.

Every company I’ve consulted for has hired a team dedicated to just setting up and monitoring AWS for the software devs. Hell, you’d probably reduce headcount running on bare metal.

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#34

Post by 9cb14c1ec0 »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #18
bilekas wrote: post #11

I'm so surprised there is so much pushback against this.. AWS is extremely expensive. The use cases for setting up your system or service entirely in AWS are more rare than people seem to realise. Maybe I'm just the old man screaming at cloud (no pun intended) but when did people forget how to run a baremetal server ? > We have 730+ days with 99.993% measured availability and we also escaped AWS region wide downtime…

Forget? You have to hire people for that. We are a software organization. We build software. If we rent in the cloud, there is less HR hassle - hiring, raises, bonuses, benefits, firing … none of that headache involved with the cloud. Technically? Totally doable. But the owners prefer renting in the cloud over the people-related issues of hiring.

This is the fallacy that Amazon sold everyone on: that the cloud has no headache or managment needed. This is manifestly untrue. It's also untrue that bare metal takes lots of management time. I have multiple Dell rack servers colocated in several different datacenters, and I don't spend any time at all managing them. They just run.

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#35

Post by ndhandala »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #29

Microk8s has common, catastrophic performance bugs. There are also catastrophic problems with microk8s Ceph addons. So is this post true? Microk8s, for people who know stuff, is a canary for clusters / applications that don’t really work.

We havent found those bugs in our cluster, but we're also moving to Talos (but for diff reasons)

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#36

Post by nicce »

fabian2k wrote: post #19
bilekas wrote: post #11

I'm so surprised there is so much pushback against this.. AWS is extremely expensive. The use cases for setting up your system or service entirely in AWS are more rare than people seem to realise. Maybe I'm just the old man screaming at cloud (no pun intended) but when did people forget how to run a baremetal server ? > We have 730+ days with 99.993% measured availability and we also escaped AWS region wide downtime…

A large part of the different views on this topic are due to the way people estimate the amount of saved effort and money because you're pushing some admin duties to the cloud provider instead of doing this yourself. And people come to vastly different conclusions on this aspect. It's also that the requirements vary a lot, discussions here on HN often seem to assume that you need HA and lots of scaling options. That…

> A large part of the different views on this topic are due to the way people estimate the amount of saved effort and money because you're pushing some admin duties to the cloud provider instead of doing this yourself. And people come to vastly different conclusions on this aspect

This applies only if you had an extra customer that pays the difference. Basically argument only holds if you can’t take more customers because upkeeping the infrastructure takes too much time or you need to hire extra person which takes more money than AWS bill difference.

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#37

Post by rco8786 »

cs702 wrote: post #15

In the early days of cloud service providers, they offered a handful of high-value services, all at great prices, making them cost-competitive with bare metal but much easier. That was then . Things today are different. As cloud service providers have grown to become dominant, they now offer a vast, complicated tangle of services, microservices, control panels, etc., at prices that can spiral out of control if you ar…

Anytime I have to go into the AWS control panel (which is often) I am immediately overwhelmed with a sense of dread. It's just the most bloated overcomplicated thing I could possibly imagine.

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#38

Post by genidoi »

JCM9 wrote: post #25
cs702 wrote: post #15

In the early days of cloud service providers, they offered a handful of high-value services, all at great prices, making them cost-competitive with bare metal but much easier. That was then . Things today are different. As cloud service providers have grown to become dominant, they now offer a vast, complicated tangle of services, microservices, control panels, etc., at prices that can spiral out of control if you ar…

This. When AWS was 10 solid core services it made sense and was exciting. It’s now a bloated mess of 200+ services (many of which almost nobody uses) with all that complexity starting to create headaches and cracks. AWS needs to stop trying to have a half-arsed solution to every possible use case and instead focus on doing a few basic things really well.

Imo the fact that an "AWS Certified Solutions Architect" is yet another AWS service/thing that is attainable, via an actual exam[0] for $300, is indicative of just how intentionally bloated the entire system has become.

[0] https://aws.amazon.com/certification/certified-solutions-arc...

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#39

Post by jsiepkes »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #18
bilekas wrote: post #11

I'm so surprised there is so much pushback against this.. AWS is extremely expensive. The use cases for setting up your system or service entirely in AWS are more rare than people seem to realise. Maybe I'm just the old man screaming at cloud (no pun intended) but when did people forget how to run a baremetal server ? > We have 730+ days with 99.993% measured availability and we also escaped AWS region wide downtime…

Forget? You have to hire people for that. We are a software organization. We build software. If we rent in the cloud, there is less HR hassle - hiring, raises, bonuses, benefits, firing … none of that headache involved with the cloud. Technically? Totally doable. But the owners prefer renting in the cloud over the people-related issues of hiring.

This is exactly the rhetoric Microsoft used in the 00's with it's "Get the facts" marketing campaign against Linux and open-source: "Never mind the costs, think about the people hours you are saving!".

It wasn't as simple as that then, at it's still not as simple as that now.

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#40

Post by hobs »

chasd00 wrote: post #33
jagged-chisel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget? You have to hire people for that. We are a software organization. We build software. If we rent in the cloud, there is less HR hassle - hiring, raises, bonuses, benefits, firing … none of that headache involved with the cloud. Technically? Totally doable. But the owners prefer renting in the cloud over the people-related issues of hiring.

Every company I’ve consulted for has hired a team dedicated to just setting up and monitoring AWS for the software devs. Hell, you’d probably reduce headcount running on bare metal.

I have spent about 1 day waiting for every 5 days doing stuff at my last 3 jobs all of which were growing companies thinking that they needed the power of the cloud, but they sure as hell were not paying to make it fast or easy to use.

Pay some "devops" folks and then underfund them and give them a mandate of all ops but with less people and also you need to manage the constant churn of aws services and then deal with normal outages and dumb dev things.

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