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Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

phys.org

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Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#31

Post by whateveracct »

jedimastert wrote: post #29
PiRho3141 wrote: post #27

I send my child to a private Montessori school. With that said, there's no denying that sending your child to a private Montessori school is similar to parents who buy books in learning to parent are typically better parents not because they read the books but because they care enough to buy the books. If you care enough to send your child to a Montessori school, the parent is invested in the child's success and I th…

> If you care enough to send your child to a Montessori school Think you mean to say that if you are well be enough to send your child to a private school...I try not to pull out the "privilege" card but good grief.

It's both.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#32

Post by WillAdams »

My children attended Montessori schools, and it really is a wonderful system.

I would really like to see an extension of this learning method up through high school --- the closest thing I'm aware of was a school I attended in Mississippi for a couple of years --- classes were divided between academic and social, social classes (homeroom, phys ed, social studies, &c.) were attended at one's age, while academic classes (reading, math, science, geography, history, &c.) were by ability (with a limit on no more than 4 grades ahead up to 8th grade) --- after 8th grade that was removed and students were allowed to take any classes.

Some of the faculty were accredited as faculty at a local college, and where warranted, either professors travelled from there to the school, or students travelled to the college for classes --- it wasn't uncommon for students to graduate high school and simultaneously be awarded a college degree.

Apparently, the system was deemed unfair because it accorded a benefit to the students who were able to take advantage of it, with no commensurate compensation for those who were not, so the Miss. State Supreme Court dismantled it.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#33

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jedimastert wrote: post #29
PiRho3141 wrote: post #27

I send my child to a private Montessori school. With that said, there's no denying that sending your child to a private Montessori school is similar to parents who buy books in learning to parent are typically better parents not because they read the books but because they care enough to buy the books. If you care enough to send your child to a Montessori school, the parent is invested in the child's success and I th…

> If you care enough to send your child to a Montessori school Think you mean to say that if you are well be enough to send your child to a private school...I try not to pull out the "privilege" card but good grief.

> if you are well be enough to send your child to a private school

This is a similar but separate effect. Rich, uncaring parents can raise unachieving idiots.

It’s easier to be caring with resources. But plenty of public school difference-in-outcome studies have found a signal from parental participation that I believe remained after adjusting for income.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#34

Post by beng-nl »

avs733 wrote: post #16

As someone who has worked in education for about a decade now, I use this quote a lot: You can’t understand Google unless you know that both Larry and Sergey were Montessori kids. — Marissa Mayer

Sorry, I have no idea what to conclude from this. Can you explain?

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#35

Post by gizmo686 »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #24
nerdsniper wrote: post #21

Any alternative school system is lower-cost than public schools if they don't have to support the needs of students with severe disabilities.

That's taken care of in the study design. The population was all kids who applied to the lottery. And the treatment group wasn't those who actually attended the Montessori school, but those who were offered a place due to the lottery. So I don't see how special needs would bias the results. If the lottery excludes those with special needs (either by design or due to self-selection) then there's no bias between contro…

Schools are not designed to calculate the actual cost on a per student basis.

Big ticket items like a dedicated SPED department, or a professional working 1:1 with a student can be accounted for. But if a special needs child participates in a standard class (which they do) and the standard teacher needs to do more than average work to accommodate them; that cost is not earmarked for that specific student. Once the bean counters see it, it is just "teacher salary", which gets averaged out across all the students.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#36

Post by trenchpilgrim »

jedimastert wrote: post #29
PiRho3141 wrote: post #27

I send my child to a private Montessori school. With that said, there's no denying that sending your child to a private Montessori school is similar to parents who buy books in learning to parent are typically better parents not because they read the books but because they care enough to buy the books. If you care enough to send your child to a Montessori school, the parent is invested in the child's success and I th…

> If you care enough to send your child to a Montessori school Think you mean to say that if you are well be enough to send your child to a private school...I try not to pull out the "privilege" card but good grief.

I have friends who have a kid in one of those schools on financial aid

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#37

Post by ryukoposting »

PiRho3141 wrote: post #27

I send my child to a private Montessori school. With that said, there's no denying that sending your child to a private Montessori school is similar to parents who buy books in learning to parent are typically better parents not because they read the books but because they care enough to buy the books. If you care enough to send your child to a Montessori school, the parent is invested in the child's success and I th…

I spent months doing research for a blog post about One Laptop Per Child last year, and came to a related, but more broad conclusion: it's extremely easy to reach misleading conclusions when studying novel educational methods. No strong conclusion comes without qualifiers related to culture and economics. Moreover, a shocking amount of harm has been done by people trying to apply an educational method outside of the socioeconomic context where its efficacy was proven.

There's a dilemma here, because in order to find ways to improve education, we have to try stuff, right? But how do we remedy the situation when those experiments fail? That's less related to the Montessori thing, but it's interesting to think about.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#38

Post by Zigurd »

WillAdams wrote: post #32

My children attended Montessori schools, and it really is a wonderful system. I would really like to see an extension of this learning method up through high school --- the closest thing I'm aware of was a school I attended in Mississippi for a couple of years --- classes were divided between academic and social, social classes (homeroom, phys ed, social studies, &c.) were attended at one's age, while academic classe…

It's hard to do self paced learning when there's no follow up. I got put into a self-paced learning experiment where we polished off the curriculum in three weeks and played chess the rest of the semester. There was nothing else for us to do. Nobody was ready to fill the remaining months. The whole school has to commit in that direction for that to succeed.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#39

Post by rahimnathwani »

gizmo686 wrote: post #35
rahimnathwani wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's taken care of in the study design. The population was all kids who applied to the lottery. And the treatment group wasn't those who actually attended the Montessori school, but those who were offered a place due to the lottery. So I don't see how special needs would bias the results. If the lottery excludes those with special needs (either by design or due to self-selection) then there's no bias between contro…

Schools are not designed to calculate the actual cost on a per student basis. Big ticket items like a dedicated SPED department, or a professional working 1:1 with a student can be accounted for. But if a special needs child participates in a standard class (which they do) and the standard teacher needs to do more than average work to accommodate them; that cost is not earmarked for that specific student. Once the be…

You are correct.

I only read up on the 'impact' part of the study's claim, not the 'lower cost' part. I thought you were talking about the impact part.

The cost part is obviously suspect, for the reason you stated. It is so obviously suspect that I had subconsciously 'tuned it out'!

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#40

Post by mlinhares »

PiRho3141 wrote: post #27

I send my child to a private Montessori school. With that said, there's no denying that sending your child to a private Montessori school is similar to parents who buy books in learning to parent are typically better parents not because they read the books but because they care enough to buy the books. If you care enough to send your child to a Montessori school, the parent is invested in the child's success and I th…

I did high school at a prestigious technical school at my hometown, hard to get in, very competitive. The education itself wasn't that much better than my previous school but they had the name recognition and as getting in was very hard, likely the best students around town.

Almost 100% pass rate to college, mostly the best colleges. Did the education provided there affect this? Likely, but it was much more the self selection of having the best students that were doing a SAT like test to get in.

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