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JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

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Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#31

Post by antx »

jasonriddle wrote: post #3
pluto_modadic wrote: post #2

if they pull out the AI stuff that'll be soooo cool :D

What AI stuff are you referring to? I just learned about this project from this blog post, so I don't have the full context on their AI work.

From the site [0]:

> Stalwart Enterprise leverages AI technology to provide unparalleled email security and management. With AI-powered features, Stalwart Enterprise excels in accurately classifying spam, detecting sophisticated phishing attempts, and blocking various types of network attacks. This intelligent approach ensures that your email environment remains secure and reliable. Stalwart Enterprise comes equipped with a pre-trained large language model (LLM), offering robust out-of-the-box protection. Additionally, it supports integration with leading AI providers such as OpenAI, Anthropic, and other cutting-edge platforms, allowing you to enhance and customize your security measures. By utilizing AI, Stalwart Enterprise delivers a smarter, more efficient email solution that proactively safeguards your communications and data.

[0]: https://stalw.art/enterprise/

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#32

Post by dijit »

woodruffw wrote: post #27
sylens wrote: post #21

We need better client support for JMAP. Apple Mail, Thunderbird, Outlook (as if), and so on. I'm surprised some of the smaller ones like Canary or Spark don't implement it as a product differentiator.

Serious question: what’s the differentiator if major email providers don’t support it? (This should not be interpreted as a defense of IMAP.)

I'd make a reasonable guess that it enables much better Javascript clients, either via Electron or the Web Browser.

You don't need major providers to support it, they support SMTP and that's how messages are relayed. JMAP is just so you: the client, can fetch your mail from wherever you host your mail.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#33

Post by dijit »

woleium wrote: post #24

I wish there was an easy auto-update process for Stalwart. is anyone hosting an apt repo for it? edit: we use it on very resource constrained environments, the container version is too much overhead.

isn't it a static binary? Can't you do it the old-school sysadmin way and pull down a binary from github releases and update a symbolic link?

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#34

Post by realityfactchex »

zenmac wrote: post #9
lifty wrote: post #8

It’s such a breeze to self-host your own email server using Stalwart. It has been a new era for email self-hosters like myself since these kind of fully integrated email servers like Stalwart appeared. Another good one but not as actively maintained is Maddy.

Yes, are there any decent JMAP web mail client that we can use? I have asked sooo many times since Stalwart first was introduced, but not got a straight answer. It is just FastMail or Topicbox. I want something like roudcoube or wildduck that can be used over https that I can self-host!

It looks like Cypht [0] is the most actively maintained JMAP webmail client listed at [1], assuming that works.

  [0] https://github.com/cypht-org/cypht
  [1] https://jmap.io/software.html

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#35

Post by audelair »

drdaeman wrote: post #14
lifty wrote: post #8

It’s such a breeze to self-host your own email server using Stalwart. It has been a new era for email self-hosters like myself since these kind of fully integrated email servers like Stalwart appeared. Another good one but not as actively maintained is Maddy.

I'm setting up Stalwart right now, migrating from my current Maddy+Postfix+Dovecot+Rspamd setup. Not exactly my experience. The documentation is not great - I'd say it's just about barely enough to get an overall idea, but there's no one proper single definitive overview of what options exist, what are their possible values, what are the defaults, and how they relate to each other. Maddy docs, despite looking a bit s…

Not sure if yours is setup different, but there are several key fields that need to be written to the config.toml file, and I've seen my file get updated when I make changes to the listeners or stores settings.

But in general, I agree that it has not been a very smooth experience. Having messed around with maddy and mox, Stalwart has had quite a few gotchas. Despite being a single binary promising simplicity, I'm finding it to be a real challenge figuring out how it all fits together, and I'm mostly learning by trial and error since the documentation is often outdated.

My biggest gripe is that it doesn't use the config.toml for every setting, or at least doesn't seem to have the option to do so. I broke my installation and had to find the posgresql key-value pairs for the settings, which was made harder by the fact that everything was stored as binary, which also made me have to edit it as binary as well. These were very simple settings that would have been a breeze in a flat configuration file. I absolutely do not like how necessary the WebAdmin is to manage simple things.

That said, the integration with calendar/contacts is nice even without JMAP... Getting Thunderbird and Roundcube setup with plugins and proper settings made it so easy to get several users setup with calendars, contacts, and shared email-boxes and shared contacts right upon first login.

The S3 storage is also working great (Hetzner Frankfurt VPS paired with AWS eu-central-1), and AWS downtime a few days ago notwithstanding, I'm feeling good about the reliability that gives me, leaving me mainly with the PosgresQL data store the main thing to keep backed up.

This is a hugely ambitious software and as such, there will be many things that I will have a hard time getting used to as a hobbyist, but also a lot to be gained. I'm sticking around for now and waiting for version 1, improved documentation, and more clarity on how it all works.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#36

Post by audelair »

realityfactchex wrote: post #34
zenmac wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, are there any decent JMAP web mail client that we can use? I have asked sooo many times since Stalwart first was introduced, but not got a straight answer. It is just FastMail or Topicbox. I want something like roudcoube or wildduck that can be used over https that I can self-host!

It looks like Cypht [0] is the most actively maintained JMAP webmail client listed at [1], assuming that works. [0] https://github.com/cypht-org/cypht [1] https://jmap.io/software.html

I tried very hard to get it to work, but I simply couldn't get it to connect with my Stalwart instance over JMAP. I do have the permissive CORS and end-points and proxy-protocol seemingly working with my test HTTPS requests, and I also successfully got JMAP to work with the Mailtemi app, but no luck yet with Cypht[0].

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#37

Post by sylens »

woodruffw wrote: post #27
sylens wrote: post #21

We need better client support for JMAP. Apple Mail, Thunderbird, Outlook (as if), and so on. I'm surprised some of the smaller ones like Canary or Spark don't implement it as a product differentiator.

Serious question: what’s the differentiator if major email providers don’t support it? (This should not be interpreted as a defense of IMAP.)

Fastmail supports it, and it sounds like Thundermail will too

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#38

Post by realityfactchex »

audelair wrote: post #36
realityfactchex wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like Cypht [0] is the most actively maintained JMAP webmail client listed at [1], assuming that works. [0] https://github.com/cypht-org/cypht [1] https://jmap.io/software.html

I tried very hard to get it to work, but I simply couldn't get it to connect with my Stalwart instance over JMAP. I do have the permissive CORS and end-points and proxy-protocol seemingly working with my test HTTPS requests, and I also successfully got JMAP to work with the Mailtemi app, but no luck yet with Cypht[0].

Darn. This looks like the open issue: https://github.com/cypht-org/cypht/issues/931

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#39

Post by cyberax »

p_l wrote: post #16
WorldMaker wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> binary protocol Email was never a binary protocol. Notoriously so, it's why MIME types and MIME encodings get so complicated. Most of the "old internet" protocols (email, FTP, even HTTP itself) were bootstrapped on top of built-mostly-for-plaintext Telnet. HTTP as the new telnet has a bunch of improvements when it comes to binary data, request/response-based data flows, and some other considerations. HTTP/3 is even…

A lot of the textual nature of older IETF protocols, including the CR LF line endigns, can be probably traced to how easy it was to bang out a bad implementation full of subtle problems that could be debugged by sitting an undergrad student at a teletype instead of spending time on having some binary serializer (that telecom companies definitely had money for)

It's also a reflection of the state-of-the-art at the time. Binary protocols were an unmitigated disaster, with standards bodies thinking that applying to the ISO for your organizational ID is a perfectly fine step that anyone does anyway.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#40

Post by drnick1 »

lifty wrote: post #8

It’s such a breeze to self-host your own email server using Stalwart. It has been a new era for email self-hosters like myself since these kind of fully integrated email servers like Stalwart appeared. Another good one but not as actively maintained is Maddy.

But is there any real benefit over Postfix + Dovecot other than "it's new and written in Rust?" Postfix and Dovecot have been around for decades and respect the Unix philosophy of doing one thing and doing it well.
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