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I’ll Give MongoDB Another Try In Ten Years

diegobasch.com

31–40 of 194 posts

Re: I’ll Give MongoDB Another Try In Ten Years

#31
The author doesn't mention if he had called getLastError after inserting data:

http://www.mongodb.org/display/DOCS/getLastError+Command

The MongoDB "way" is that clients know the importance of their data and can choose write strategies which make the proper trade-off between insertion throughput/latency and durability/consistency.

Re: I’ll Give MongoDB Another Try In Ten Years

#32
post #5
post #3

Just read the documentation and learn the APIs, this is what happens when you just copy and paste code from a tutorial.

This type of attitude is not constructive. Of course I read the documentation. Much more than "copy and paste from the tutorial." I looked at tons of code samples as needed, read blog posts, etc. The limitation wasn't obvious at all. This reminds me of the attitude that I had to correct in developers that worked for me: - There is a huge difference between "it works" and "it does what the user expects in a friendly w…

> Steve Jobs said that if you need to read a user manual (particularly to do the most vanilla usage of a product), the problem is the product. Not you.

He's talking about consumer products, not databases that were intended for use by technology experts. There's a big difference there.

The onus is on you to understand the limitations of software before you start using it. You complain that the 32-bit warning doesn't show up in the package manager, but you still should have read the documentation before committing to a new technology. It's that simple.

Is it a flaw that mongo doesn't work well on 32 bit systems? Maybe. Probably.

Is it a flaw that you didn't do the requisite research before committing to a database and subsequently complaining about it? Definitely.

Re: I’ll Give MongoDB Another Try In Ten Years

#34
post #5
post #3

Just read the documentation and learn the APIs, this is what happens when you just copy and paste code from a tutorial.

This type of attitude is not constructive. Of course I read the documentation. Much more than "copy and paste from the tutorial." I looked at tons of code samples as needed, read blog posts, etc. The limitation wasn't obvious at all. This reminds me of the attitude that I had to correct in developers that worked for me: - There is a huge difference between "it works" and "it does what the user expects in a friendly w…

that quote is absolutely correct for a consumer product such as a phone, but it's disingenuous to apply it to a highly complex product used entirely for bespoke development, aimed at some of the most technical individuals around.

Re: I’ll Give MongoDB Another Try In Ten Years

#35

It's almost like the commenters who are bashing the author of the post did not read the bit in bold, which is his main point: If you tell a database to store something, and it doesn’t complain, you should safely assume that it was stored. This has nothing to do with the 2Gb limitation. Nowhere in the documentation does it mention that it will silently discard your data. What will happen with the 64-bit version if you…

> Nowhere in the documentation does it mention that it will silently discard your data.

Demonstrably false. http://www.mongodb.org/display/DOCS/getLastError+Command

"MongoDB does not wait for a response by default when writing to the database. Use the getLastError command to ensure that operations have succeeded."

Re: I’ll Give MongoDB Another Try In Ten Years

#36

It's almost like the commenters who are bashing the author of the post did not read the bit in bold, which is his main point: If you tell a database to store something, and it doesn’t complain, you should safely assume that it was stored. This has nothing to do with the 2Gb limitation. Nowhere in the documentation does it mention that it will silently discard your data. What will happen with the 64-bit version if you…

it's called getLastError

Re: I’ll Give MongoDB Another Try In Ten Years

#37
There's a bigger question here. I get why diego was flabbergasted by the default, and I also hear legitimate claims that the documentation should have been read. But what I want to know is: Why are MongoDB advocates in such a bad mood?

It's legit to criticize a language or a database. However, it seems to me that when MongoDB gets involved, the tone is far more aggressive and defensive. What's up with that? It's just software, bits and config files. It's not like someone called your mom a harlot.

Here's what I think. New developers, for a long time, have come into the industry and become overwhelmed with everything they need to learn. Let's take typical database servers. Writing a SELECT is easy enough, but to truly be an expert you have to learn about data writing operations, indexing, execution plans, triggers, replication, sharding, GRANTs, etc. As it's a mature technology, you start out barely an apprentice, with all these experienced professionals around you.

In recent years, software development has really been turned on its head. We're not building apps using the same stack we've used for a long time: OO + RDBMS + view layer + physical hardware. The younger the technology, the better, it seems. In theory, a 3 year developer and a 20 year developer are now pretty equal when we're talking about a technology that's been around 2-3 years. That wouldn't be true if we were dealing with say, OO design patterns. (Even when new languages come along, you still get to keep your experience in the core competencies.)

Attacks on these new technologies are perceived as an assault on this new world order, and those who have walked into being one of the "newb elite" respond emotionally to what they see as a battle for the return to the old guard. Am I totally off base here?

Re: I’ll Give MongoDB Another Try In Ten Years

#38
post #5
post #3

Just read the documentation and learn the APIs, this is what happens when you just copy and paste code from a tutorial.

This type of attitude is not constructive. Of course I read the documentation. Much more than "copy and paste from the tutorial." I looked at tons of code samples as needed, read blog posts, etc. The limitation wasn't obvious at all. This reminds me of the attitude that I had to correct in developers that worked for me: - There is a huge difference between "it works" and "it does what the user expects in a friendly w…

The Jobs quote is only relevant for mass-market consumer technology. Nobody would argue that you should be able to operate an MRI machine or an F-16 fighter plane without reading a manual.

Re: I’ll Give MongoDB Another Try In Ten Years

#39

Interesting that you're quoting the zen of python, but using ruby. I wonder if the python mongo client would have the same behaviour. There seems to be a number of people commenting, telling you to read the documentation, but I'm with you, that is completely counter-intuitive behaviour and should be viewed as a bug.

This has nothing to do with the client library, so it would not matter which language you use to interface with MongoDB.

Re: I’ll Give MongoDB Another Try In Ten Years

#40
Does he have a point that it should have very vocally complained to him that his size limit have been reached, and records were not being stored?

Yes. Without question.

Is this his own fault for not reading the documentation and understanding that he should have opted for the 64bit version outright?

Yes. Without question.

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