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Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

generalrobots.substack.com

31–40 of 118 posts

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#31

Rather than teaching your robot to fold inside-out clothes, you should teach it to attack people who put their clothes in the hamper inside out.

I agree, but in some cases it makes sense to protect the print. Although I habe no idea if it actually helps.

If it's vinyl applied with heat (numbers on a jersey as an example), they recommend turning inside out. That way, if it gets too hot in the dryer, it only sticks to itself instead of to other garments. Losing the one garment is better than multiple.

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#32
post #18

Here's a use case that seems more science fictional to me (as the parent of a 2yo) than warp drive: a robot that can gently restrain an uncooperative human baby while changing its diaper, with everything that entails: identifying and eliminating all traces of waste from all crevices, applying diaper cream as necessary, unfolding and positioning the new diaper correctly and quickly, always using enough but never too m…

This is a great one. The manipulation is hard, but we're probably on a trajectory to be able to do it in 1-3 years if you were tolerant of some risk to the baby, but, of course, your tolerance for injuring babies is basically zero. I think 'risk & reliability' is a good potential category: there is the bar of 'got it to do a task reliably enough that we got a video' and the bar of 'got it to do a task reliably enough…

> but we're probably on a trajectory to be able to do it in 1-3 years

This is wildly optimistic. I quit working in robotics because I got tired of all the bullshit promises everybody made all the time. I'm not saying robotics isn't advancing or the work is unimportant, but the spokespeople are about as reliable as Musk when it comes to timelines.

I doubt it will happen in 10 years, even with a constrained environment and hardware that costs well into 6 digits.

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great one. The manipulation is hard, but we're probably on a trajectory to be able to do it in 1-3 years if you were tolerant of some risk to the baby, but, of course, your tolerance for injuring babies is basically zero. I think 'risk & reliability' is a good potential category: there is the bar of 'got it to do a task reliably enough that we got a video' and the bar of 'got it to do a task reliably enough…

> your tolerance for injuring babies is basically zero. Um, no it's not. Is absolutely zero tolerance. There is not weasel words out of this. If a robot was to cause any pain to the baby, there would be no remorse. There would be no front of mind thoughts to not repeat the same thing the next time. There would be no guilt for causing pain to the baby. Why you would "basically" this the way you have is disturbing.

I don't think the parent comment advocates for hurting babies. It just, probably correctly, states that cherry picked examples won't be representative of roboty safety with infants in the next years, but that true safety will improve over time as well.

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#34

Hey Hacker News. Curious if folks feel like I'm missing categories of challenge.

I'd go for something in the manipulation of ropes or wires. State of the art seems to be that they can untangle a loosely knotted cord. Untying a short rope with a tightly pulled overhand knot in the middle seems like it's decades away. You have to be able to grip it well enough, then twist the rope and push (even though every physicist says pushing a rope is impossible).

Belaying a climber would be a hilarious (and fraught) gold medal challenge.

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#36

Hey Hacker News. Curious if folks feel like I'm missing categories of challenge.

I love your list and it makes me think we are so far away from these things ever being feasible/cost effective compared to just hiring a poor person to do it. And the world is making a lot of poor people right now.

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#37

Hey Hacker News. Curious if folks feel like I'm missing categories of challenge.

(HN link on Substack points at empty page instead of this one, at least before I made this comment.)

What I think is missing is marathon events. Biathalons and Triathalons.

We all know LLMs have a rather limited context window. Thus seeing robots do longer chains of events would be interesting to see that they're capable than a possibly rigged demo.

Something like: move a stack of boxes from one room to another. The boxes at the end also need to be stacked up. or how about pick up a box, go up some stairs, open a door, and put the box on a shelf on the other side.

Also, the real world is sloppy and messy and dirty and, to be real, kinda janky sometimes. Gold for unlocking a door with a key at a well-maintained office complex, (and opening it, and walking through it) is one thing, because facilities is going to replace the lock before it gets old and needs replacing, and we can assume the door fits in the frame properly so it doesn't need to be shoved or lifted up or yanked in order to be opened is easier than. But the real world is messy and sloppy and you gotta jiggle the key in just the right way in order to get it to work.

Closing the door (assuming the robots weren't raised in a robot barn) is also harder than it looks if the door is shitty and needs a proper slam in order to be fully closed. Also, the robot locking the door behind itself after it comes in. Scanning a key card and opening a door, but the first try fails.

We're a long way from a general robot that can screw a simple screw together like you would to assemble Ikea furniture.

Object recognition.

Gather only the dishes from a messy coffee table and put them in the dish bin.

Pick up only the clothes from a messy floor and bed, and put them in the hamper.

Dump a hamper of clothes onto a table, and sort out stuff that doesn't want to go into the washing machine.

Terrain traversal.

Just walk 500 ft, but theres increasing levels of obstacles in the way.

We all saw Boston dynamics robot parkour videos, but what I want to see is a robot make it from the front door of Simpsons house to the kitchen in the back, but it's got to go through the living room, but it's hella messy, with Maggie and Bart and Lisa’s crap strewn all over, Homer’s got some beer bottles, some empty, some full, all over the floor and on the table, and all the robot has to do is walk from one side of the room to the far side of the room without stepping on anything, or knocking anything over. (Simpsons merely being a home layout that's familiar to most people. Doesn't need to actually be them.)

Ducking under a low ceiling. Climb over a barrier, of varying shapes and sizes.

Other loocomotion. how much weight in its arms in front of it, holding a 5-lb briefcase with one hand while walking. Can it carry something on its back? What's the limit? Can it give piggyback rides?

A category for simulated. Let companies show off their robot's kinematics control systems, so have something on the level of CoppeliaSim, so the motors and the gears and the actuators are themselves simulated, vs a simple 3d video game where they are not. Plug their model into the simulated robot and see how well it just walks. If we remember QWOP, it's harder than it looks!

Obviously it's not going to be totally 100% accurate to the real world. The benefit of this is it lets people complete from all over world without having to replicate a very specific setup in the physical world, and compete from wherever they live am not have to fly to your facility to test, opening up a whole new world of contestants because they can now compete because they can afford it now.

At the end of the day, the most important challenge is, can it pick up a battery from the shelf, swap it with one of the two in its chassis, and put the dead one it just pulled out onto the charger?

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#38
post #18

Here's a use case that seems more science fictional to me (as the parent of a 2yo) than warp drive: a robot that can gently restrain an uncooperative human baby while changing its diaper, with everything that entails: identifying and eliminating all traces of waste from all crevices, applying diaper cream as necessary, unfolding and positioning the new diaper correctly and quickly, always using enough but never too m…

Why? There's nothing particularly special about this problem. I would bet a year for an alpha version, and production version in 5 years. We are not exactly limited by mechanical engineering here, there's nothing particularly unique about the human hand that can't be replicated. Tele operated surgical robotics have been a thing for decades. Give it a few months for the multimodal robotic VLM/LAMs to catch up. In many ways this particular problem is a lot more well defined than e.g. self driving cars.

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#39
Think about how fast progress is being made now. When I was a kid in the early 2000s we would see some basic robot progress on movements (almost always from Boston Dynamics or sometimes China) and we thought it was incredible. Robot dogs running was amazing and five or so years later a backflip blew our minds. Those robots were specially designed and didn't look humanoid. Now we have bi-pedal humanoid robots and they walk and move fairly capably - even able to get up after falls. Now within the last year I have seen them learn Kung Fu, become really fast at getting up, become resistant to being knocked down by quite a lot of force, and now even doing tasks like those shown here.

Just imagine 2050 if the progress continues at this rate. I am both excited and really scared.

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#40
Great post! Now somebody with the connections just needs to make it happen. For event five, slippery when wet, you should definitely include drying your hands on a towel, as it serves an important hygienic function.
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