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Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

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Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#31

Post by miltonlost »

freedomben wrote: post #14
maxeda wrote: post #2

> “Environmental regulations are, in my view, largely terrible,” he said at an event with the libertarian Cato Institute last year. “You have to get permission in advance, as opposed to, say, paying a penalty if you do something wrong, which I think would be much more effective.” This quote is particularly telling of a billionaire's mindset when the fines are too small to matter.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Many regulations are terrible and serve as a huge hindrance to innovation, and effectively restrict certain things to only the already-massively-rich entrepreneurs. However, (IMHO) there are a lot of regulations that are important and absolutely should be enforced up front. Finding the right balance is kind of impossible, and I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater,…

> Many regulations are terrible and serve as a huge hindrance to innovation

Because "Innovation" isn't the be-all-end-all of a regulation or shouldn't be one of its aims or concerns. As a hyperbole, I don't care about "innovation" if you need to throw 4000 people into an industrial shredder in order to do it.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#32

Post by Avshalom »

dpc_01234 wrote: post #12
maxeda wrote: post #2

> “Environmental regulations are, in my view, largely terrible,” he said at an event with the libertarian Cato Institute last year. “You have to get permission in advance, as opposed to, say, paying a penalty if you do something wrong, which I think would be much more effective.” This quote is particularly telling of a billionaire's mindset when the fines are too small to matter.

He is right, but also the fines need to be higher, especially for repeated violations. Ever worked in a company where you need approval from 7 separate teams to land a simple change? Just can't get anything done, no matter how useful. This is a huge problem. People generally do not understand what serialized blocking does to performance. On the other hand the fines cited in the article seem laughably low. I don't kno…

No, he's not, if you poison the population "paying a fine" isn't going to unpoison them.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#33

Post by majormajor »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #4
maxeda wrote: post #2

> “Environmental regulations are, in my view, largely terrible,” he said at an event with the libertarian Cato Institute last year. “You have to get permission in advance, as opposed to, say, paying a penalty if you do something wrong, which I think would be much more effective.” This quote is particularly telling of a billionaire's mindset when the fines are too small to matter.

> particularly telling of a billionaire's mindset when the fines are too small to matter It’s telling that billionaires are human? Fines being too small to matter are a phenomenon across the income spectrum. From delivery drivers dancing with New York meter maids to American tourists ignoring overseas traffic rules, the notion that inadequate fines stop deterring and become merely a nuisance is well know.

Fines are usually going to be too small to matter in a world with limited-personal-liability for corporations.

IMO his statement is disingenuous at that higher level. It's telling that billionaires propose things that wouldn't personally cut into their liquid assets, but instead would come out of a company that shields them from personal responsibility.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#34

Post by fvrghl »

ceejayoz wrote: post #19

> “Given the extraordinary number of violations, NDEP has decided to exercise its discretion to reduce the penalty to two $5,000 violations per permit, which it believes offers a reasonable penalty that will still serve to deter future non-compliance conduct,” regulators wrote in the letter. The fuck? "You were driving so fast we gave you a discount on the speeding fine."

This is how parking tickets work in NYC. FedEx, etc negotiate down the total amount they have to pay because they have so many tickets.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#35

Post by Seattle3503 »

The tricky thing about environmental regulations is that they are crafted and utilized by NIMBYs to block any infrastructure development. Even if, on balance, the infrastructure is a net positive.

It's not clear if these violations actually represent a real environmental hazard or are more reflective of NIMBY degrowth sentiment.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#36

Post by miltonlost »

recursive4 wrote: post #30

800 environment violations in service of the development of modern subterranean transportation is a utilitarian trade I'll take any day of the week.

> modern subterranean transportation

Looks at Hyperloop. Looks at London subway. Looks at NYC subway. Looks at literally any other subway Yeah, a poorly-made tunnel with cars that fit 2-3 people at a time while requiring each car to have their own driver is very modern and definitely worth environmental violations.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#37

Post by ceejayoz »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #35

The tricky thing about environmental regulations is that they are crafted and utilized by NIMBYs to block any infrastructure development. Even if, on balance, the infrastructure is a net positive. It's not clear if these violations actually represent a real environmental hazard or are more reflective of NIMBY degrowth sentiment.

Las Vegas does not strike me as a very friendly place for NIMBYs.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#38

Post by spankibalt »

freedomben wrote: post #14
maxeda wrote: post #2

> “Environmental regulations are, in my view, largely terrible,” he said at an event with the libertarian Cato Institute last year. “You have to get permission in advance, as opposed to, say, paying a penalty if you do something wrong, which I think would be much more effective.” This quote is particularly telling of a billionaire's mindset when the fines are too small to matter.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Many regulations are terrible and serve as a huge hindrance to innovation, and effectively restrict certain things to only the already-massively-rich entrepreneurs. However, (IMHO) there are a lot of regulations that are important and absolutely should be enforced up front. Finding the right balance is kind of impossible, and I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater,…

> "The truth is somewhere in the middle."

Another day, another invocation of the golden mean fallacy.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#39

Post by 3D30497420 »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #35

The tricky thing about environmental regulations is that they are crafted and utilized by NIMBYs to block any infrastructure development. Even if, on balance, the infrastructure is a net positive. It's not clear if these violations actually represent a real environmental hazard or are more reflective of NIMBY degrowth sentiment.

From the article:

> Workers have complained of chemical burns from the waste material generated by the tunneling process, and firefighters must decontaminate their equipment after conducting rescues from the project sites. The company was fined more than $112,000 by Nevada’s Occupational Safety and Health Administration in late 2023 after workers complained of “ankle-deep” water in the tunnels, muck spills and burns.

That sounds like a "real environmental hazard" to me.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#40

Post by miltonlost »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #35

The tricky thing about environmental regulations is that they are crafted and utilized by NIMBYs to block any infrastructure development. Even if, on balance, the infrastructure is a net positive. It's not clear if these violations actually represent a real environmental hazard or are more reflective of NIMBY degrowth sentiment.

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