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How Kyoto, Japan Became the Loveliest Tourist-Trap

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Re: How Kyoto, Japan Became the Loveliest Tourist-Trap

#31

Post by trzy »

Klonoar wrote: post #19
trzy wrote: post #8

I was there in January. Maybe not the busiest season but honestly this issue is overstated. I was the only white bro in a kimono (and it was my Japanese friend who really wanted to do it). Most of Kyoto is completely unaffected by tourism, though these are not historical areas. We had great omurice at a very local place on the outskirts of town after finishing up with Kinkaku-ji.

It is not overstated. You have an anecdotal experience compared to plenty of written reviews of the situation Kyoto (and Japan in general) is facing with regards to tourism.

It’s completely overstated. The article is a bit ridiculous — like, oh no! They had to put up some English signage at temples! Foreign guests aren’t finishing their traditional breakfast!

I’ve spent considerable time in Tokyo in recent years as well. It’s largely the same as it ever was. “Incidents” with tourists are clearly blown out of proportion by local social media. Yes, there are visibly more foreigners than in 2008 (mostly immigrants who work and speak Japanese). No, the character of the city has not changed.

On my Shinkansen from Kyoto to Tokyo most recently, a noisy quartet of drunk guys chatted loudly for over a hour on the late evening weekday train and spilled a beer. Can you imagine the horror? They were Japanese restaurateurs from Osaka.

Re: How Kyoto, Japan Became the Loveliest Tourist-Trap

#32

Post by johngossman »

bamboozled wrote: post #15
GreyZephyr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also in Kyoto right before the lockdowns for the first time in a decade and it was magical and like it was in my childhood. When I went back a few years ago, I nearly cried; the lovely quiet city of books was so noisy and everyone was so angry. I don’t really have a point I don’t think you should stop people from travelling but still it make’s me sad.

What I'm a bit confused about is why Japan doesn't just make more wonderful things , so there is just more to go around? Like what happened to building amazing temples, and gardens? Where did that spirit go. I find it quite sad and strange that the temples are kind of ghost towns without any practicing monks (for example). I guess that time is over, and that's sad, I just don't feel like it has to be. Maybe the decli…

There's already plenty to go around. It's like paintings in the Louvre, the Mona Lisa is overrun because there's a kind of mythology about it, not because nobody paints anymore.

As another poster commented, there are people who still build with traditional materials and methods. The temples are made of wood and have to be renovated. Some are completely rebuilt, symbolic of the transitory nature of the material world. Enryakuji is undergoing renovations and they had to completely cover it with a metal shed while they work on the roof. But it's still open and you can still visit either as a sacred site or to learn about the traditional methods. It is supposed to finished in 2026.

As far as building new temples. Those monasteries had thousands of resident monks. They were significant military powers they were so populated. Even though the overall population of Japan has grown, far fewer people want to live that life. But again, there's no shortage of temples.

Re: How Kyoto, Japan Became the Loveliest Tourist-Trap

#34

Post by rPlayer6554 »

I’m going to Japan in a week and I’m doing 1 week Tokyo, 2 days Nakasendo trail, 1 week Kyoto, 2 days Hiroshima. (Plus a day leftover I haven’t decided what to do with)

Do people have tips to find less touristy but still worthwhile places to go. Tourists go for these big places because traveling to Japan costs quite a bit and I’m using limited vacation time. Planning the trip in a location where the language doesn’t even have the same characters and I don’t have many familiar geographical reference points that coordinate with known cultural themes (unlike Europe) is already a bit overwhelming.

Re: How Kyoto, Japan Became the Loveliest Tourist-Trap

#35

Post by Pooge »

washadjeffmad wrote: post #28
Pooge wrote: post #17

I want to copypaste this answer to so many comments in this thread but instead, let me reply to the post directly. I'm going to travel to Japan (again) around late November this year. For this trip, I made a point to not return to a city I've been to already — Tokyo is an exception but I need to take my plane back home at some point. Japan really has a high density when you go to the touristic attractions (most of th…

Food is cheap, but skilled labor is expensive. In the US, it's common to go out to eat because the reputation and wages of labor for food service have been crushed, but in Japan, asking another human to pour your beers and make you food and then clean up in an izakaya carries an appropriate cost. A friend who'd never left the US was shocked to learn going to teppanyaki cost almost $200/person... and the chef didn't e…

> A friend who'd never left the US was shocked to learn going to teppanyaki cost almost $200/person

Yes that is unfortunately true and sometimes they aren't even upfront about it. It's very common to have this fee in bars and izakaya[1].

But I would still argue that it's still quite affordable compared to other big cities.

I'm not arguing for the purchasing power of Japanese people inside Japan[2], but as a tourist it definitely seems like a first-tier destination without the price!

[1]: Japanese pub, basically

[2]: Trust me, they really did get the wrong end of the stick

Edit: After reading another comment, I actually misread Dollars for Yens and I think I was talking about something completely different!

Re: How Kyoto, Japan Became the Loveliest Tourist-Trap

#36

Post by Schiendelman »

washadjeffmad wrote: post #28
Pooge wrote: post #17

I want to copypaste this answer to so many comments in this thread but instead, let me reply to the post directly. I'm going to travel to Japan (again) around late November this year. For this trip, I made a point to not return to a city I've been to already — Tokyo is an exception but I need to take my plane back home at some point. Japan really has a high density when you go to the touristic attractions (most of th…

Food is cheap, but skilled labor is expensive. In the US, it's common to go out to eat because the reputation and wages of labor for food service have been crushed, but in Japan, asking another human to pour your beers and make you food and then clean up in an izakaya carries an appropriate cost. A friend who'd never left the US was shocked to learn going to teppanyaki cost almost $200/person... and the chef didn't e…

Where on earth was teppanyaki $200/pp?

Re: How Kyoto, Japan Became the Loveliest Tourist-Trap

#37

Post by Schiendelman »

rPlayer6554 wrote: post #34

I’m going to Japan in a week and I’m doing 1 week Tokyo, 2 days Nakasendo trail, 1 week Kyoto, 2 days Hiroshima. (Plus a day leftover I haven’t decided what to do with) Do people have tips to find less touristy but still worthwhile places to go. Tourists go for these big places because traveling to Japan costs quite a bit and I’m using limited vacation time. Planning the trip in a location where the language doesn’t…

The main tip I have: Walk a block off the main street. Don't plan too much. Don't try to go to most of the main tourist spots, instead see neighborhoods. Go to bed early and wake up early - walk neighborhoods at 7am instead of 11am.

Re: How Kyoto, Japan Became the Loveliest Tourist-Trap

#38

Post by Pooge »

Schiendelman wrote: post #36
washadjeffmad wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food is cheap, but skilled labor is expensive. In the US, it's common to go out to eat because the reputation and wages of labor for food service have been crushed, but in Japan, asking another human to pour your beers and make you food and then clean up in an izakaya carries an appropriate cost. A friend who'd never left the US was shocked to learn going to teppanyaki cost almost $200/person... and the chef didn't e…

Where on earth was teppanyaki $200/pp?

Actually, I've read ¥200/person instead of $200/person but the original comment indeed mentions dollars.

Anyways, I think they were talking about the price of entering the teppanyaki restaurant of ¥200/person.

Re: How Kyoto, Japan Became the Loveliest Tourist-Trap

#39

Post by Klonoar »

trzy wrote: post #31
Klonoar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not overstated. You have an anecdotal experience compared to plenty of written reviews of the situation Kyoto (and Japan in general) is facing with regards to tourism.

It’s completely overstated. The article is a bit ridiculous — like, oh no! They had to put up some English signage at temples! Foreign guests aren’t finishing their traditional breakfast! I’ve spent considerable time in Tokyo in recent years as well. It’s largely the same as it ever was. “Incidents” with tourists are clearly blown out of proportion by local social media. Yes, there are visibly more foreigners than in…

…uh huh.

It’s not ridiculous, and you are relying purely on your anecdotal experiences to attempt to say otherwise. That is fine, you have every right to do that - but it does not negate the litany of media in English and Japanese that has covered this issue.

I also lived in the country for years, and am back several times a year to see friends and do business. I am fairly confident that the current situation and reputation that Kyoto has is not overstated; I do not know a single local who will even bother going at the moment.

Re: How Kyoto, Japan Became the Loveliest Tourist-Trap

#40

Post by SenHeng »

rPlayer6554 wrote: post #34

I’m going to Japan in a week and I’m doing 1 week Tokyo, 2 days Nakasendo trail, 1 week Kyoto, 2 days Hiroshima. (Plus a day leftover I haven’t decided what to do with) Do people have tips to find less touristy but still worthwhile places to go. Tourists go for these big places because traveling to Japan costs quite a bit and I’m using limited vacation time. Planning the trip in a location where the language doesn’t…

If you’re doing the nakasendo then just skip Kyoto and stick around in Matsumoto. Head north to Azumino/Tateshina or south to Suwa.

https://www.go-nagano.net/en/trip-idea/id16492

Forgot to mention, the uncharacteristically warm and long summer meant there hasn’t been enough food in the forests and bears have been coming into towns to forage. Lots of people have been hurt and killed by bears this year. Up 2.7 times according to the news today. Be careful when hiking anywhere secluded.

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