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Google Maps' advantage over Apple Maps

blog.telemapics.com

31–40 of 157 posts

Re: Google Maps' advantage over Apple Maps

#31

"[Apple's] problem is that they thought they did not have a problem." Crucial insight, there. From the perspective of an observer who has no special affection for Apple, it's surprising that a company of that competence would succumb to such a basic process error.

Is this true though? It's easy for everyone for all the armchair CEOs to say that Jobs never would have released such an epic fail, but I'm not so sure.

If there's one thing that Apple hates as much as a half-baked UX, it's dependency on another tech company. It seems pretty obvious to me as a casual developer and observer of Google maps over the years that global mapping is really really hard. How could Apple not have known this? I don't think even they have this much hubris.

Now we don't know why negotiations with Google for the maps API failed. Maybe Apple was overconfident, maybe Google was playing hard ball for Android's sake, maybe a bit of both. But regardless of the reason, the contract was not renewed and they had to release something. The iPhone without maps is not the iPhone.

The fact that they used an algorithmic approach to QA says more about the timelines than Apple's beliefs about the overall best approach. There was simply not time to get people on the ground to do a proper QA job. Apple's hands were tied.

Re: Google Maps' advantage over Apple Maps

#32

"[Apple's] problem is that they thought they did not have a problem." Crucial insight, there. From the perspective of an observer who has no special affection for Apple, it's surprising that a company of that competence would succumb to such a basic process error.

This is the first event that people will put down to a lack of Steve Jobs that I think actually might reflect that...

Would Jobs have the balls to release iOS 6 with no Maps at all for a year or more while they scramble to catch up? Those would be some huge cajones.

Re: Google Maps' advantage over Apple Maps

#33
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can get 14600 workers who can do this work and the software, you could do it in 10 days.

I thought it was reasonably entertaining to consider 400 salary years at $100k each just to see what the numbers looked like. Apple has had trouble with Big Data, in the parlance, but iCloud is still running. They've made some pretty dumb mistakes with their online services over the years, but they still do happen to be syncing data (if even just push notifications) to something on the order of a hundred million devi…

From what I've heard, Google had an army of around 1000+ contract workers in Hyderabad, India, cleaning up the data for about 5 years. If anything 400 man-years sounds low :)

This is apart from MapMaker, and their dev teams, and their software improvements.

For instance, if you look at directions in India now, they're awesome, since they tell you landmarks to look for on the way [pass by * on left], at the intersections, etc. http://goo.gl/maps/b8w15 for instance.

My guess is 95% will take 3-4 years - once they accept they have a problem.

Re: Google Maps' advantage over Apple Maps

#34

Where was Apple's QA on this? This seems like a colossal oversight for a company previously known for sweating all the small details.

QA on the scale of what they needed wouldn't work. You have to bare in mind that Apple like to keep things close to their chest. To have at least one person per city testing this worldwide was impossible.

For the most valuable company on earth, with more cash reserves in the bank than the entire value of most companies? Google has street view cars roaming the planet. I think Apple could do more human QA if it was a priority.

Re: Google Maps' advantage over Apple Maps

#35
The article does not really provide much new information. That mapping is hard is known. That there are companies who have much experience in this area and that Apple will have to compete with them is known - from Google, over Garmin to Nokia.

It's just that it is hard and that it will take Apple a lot of time and investment to bring the mapping functionality to a better level. I'm pretty sure Apple knows that.

It's just the first iteration. Apple works that way. Bring a product or service in a first iteration and then improve from there. This is how the iPod evolved, for example. Aperture, another example.

The current maps application in iOS already has a feedback interface. This helps to improve the data.

But there are a few things which need more consideration:

* the 3d view looks ugly when looked at close to the objects. The 3d reconstruction algorithm which creates a 3d view from images is problematic.

* the angle of the data from Tomtom is for car users. Other users have less benefit: there is a lack of detail and the usage perspective renders the map in a certain way. For example here in Europe there are a lot of local public transit users. They have a hard time identifying useful informations on the current maps.

* combination with all kinds of POIs. You need to get that data and have it constantly updated. Where is a shop, when is it open, where is a museum, where are interesting views, where is a difficult road condition, ...

Probably the mapping domain is the toughest Apple has touched in years. You need a really good idea how to deal with the challenges. Personally, I think it is worth it, but it will be a lot of work (and not of machines, but also of humans) and very expensive for Apple. I'd wish they would use more of Openstreetmap and that there would be a benefit for the Openstreetmap community.

Re: Google Maps' advantage over Apple Maps

#36
post #4

TIL about Google Map Maker. Just corrected a few issues in my neighborhood, they got approved, I wonder when they get into Google Maps. Anyone knows how long it takes? Google's email sent to me just says "Soon you will be able to see your edit live on Google Maps."

My experience has been about a month.

Re: Google Maps' advantage over Apple Maps

#37
post #29

> My overall view of the companies that it (Apple) has assembled to create its application is that they are, as a whole, rated “C-grade” suppliers. This just amazes me. For the longest time there were really only two suppliers of data: Tele Atlas and NAVTEQ. Everything else wasn't worth touching b/c the quality sucked. Then Google collected their own in their little cars and stopped paying suppliers. I'm not sure why…

Isn't the TomTom data really the Tele Atlas data set?

Apple has no lack of hubris - in some things they succeed spectacularly beyond all expectations, and in others - well MobileMe, Ping, and now Maps...

Re: Google Maps' advantage over Apple Maps

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

QA on the scale of what they needed wouldn't work. You have to bare in mind that Apple like to keep things close to their chest. To have at least one person per city testing this worldwide was impossible.

For the most valuable company on earth, with more cash reserves in the bank than the entire value of most companies? Google has street view cars roaming the planet. I think Apple could do more human QA if it was a priority.

> I think Apple could do more human QA if it was a priority.

Only if they realized it. It took Google 3 years to realize that they couldn't solve it algorithmically.

Re: Google Maps' advantage over Apple Maps

#40
post #19

"[Apple's] problem is that they thought they did not have a problem." Crucial insight, there. From the perspective of an observer who has no special affection for Apple, it's surprising that a company of that competence would succumb to such a basic process error.

Apple actually makes this kind of mistake often: they positively excel at some things (retail relationships, hardware supply chains, physical design, software integration) but really suck at other things (social experiences, data harvesting and search, data synchronization and security, dealing with developers): even "within" the Apple community this leads to a number of well-known failures, from Ping (a similar situ…

There's plenty worth criticizing about Apple, but you didn't even mention radar://

1) "Social Experiences" - Ping failed where... who succeeded?

2) "Data Harvesting and Search" - These are two terms that are either exactly the same, or extremely different. Neither points at a clear criticism. You realize Apple pioneered desktop search, right?

3) "Data synchronization" - Where's the problem, exactly? Is there any company other than Dropbox that can claim the crown for this? Do you know how hard this is? Who is third place after Apple's second?

4) "and Security" - Again. Huh?

5) I'm terribly sorry you had a software failure and only had a single solitary backup of 8GB of your vital that was difficult to retrieve when Apple was clearly spiking 8 petabytes of traffic in one day. In this clearly entirely hypothetical scenario you've invented.

I hate defending the only company that finally brought UNIX to the desktop just because I happen to wear designer glasses.

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