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Israel, Hamas agree on first phase of ceasefire, hostage release

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas agree on first phase of ceasefire, hostage release

#31

Post by tguvot »

runarberg wrote: post #29
jfengel wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just" isn't even on the table. I can only talk about it in terms of Realpolitik, the things that might actually happen. I don't believe anything past the prisoner swap will be executed. If we're lucky, the ceasefire will last until next year, at which point Israeli elections will alter the calculus. That's so fundamental that everything after that is utterly opaque.

It pains me to say it, but I fear you are right. Israel has terrible track record when it comes to following their own peace agreements. Aside from unilaterally breaking the ceasefire with Hamas last March, they are also serially breaking their ceasefire with Hezbollah in Lebanon, both without consequences. I really hope we are wrong here and this will be a lasting ceasefire, but If we are not, Europe has really paid…

It's somewhat disingenuous of you to talk about Israel terrible track record when it comes to following their own peace agreements and referring to ceasefires as example while ignoring actual peace agreements that been rocks solid for decades.

Ceasefire with hezbollah/lebnon has part that says that in case hezbollah doesn't get disarmed Israel has right to casually bomb whenever it identifies danger to itself. Lebanese are very aware of this part of agreement.

With regards to hamas ceasefire (given that you ignore at least or cheer at most how hamas violated it on oct 7th or hezbollah on oct 8th), it was ceasefire for negotiations. hamas didn't negotiate. ceasefire ended.

Re: Israel, Hamas agree on first phase of ceasefire, hostage release

#34

Post by runarberg »

tguvot wrote: post #31
runarberg wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It pains me to say it, but I fear you are right. Israel has terrible track record when it comes to following their own peace agreements. Aside from unilaterally breaking the ceasefire with Hamas last March, they are also serially breaking their ceasefire with Hezbollah in Lebanon, both without consequences. I really hope we are wrong here and this will be a lasting ceasefire, but If we are not, Europe has really paid…

It's somewhat disingenuous of you to talk about Israel terrible track record when it comes to following their own peace agreements and referring to ceasefires as example while ignoring actual peace agreements that been rocks solid for decades. Ceasefire with hezbollah/lebnon has part that says that in case hezbollah doesn't get disarmed Israel has right to casually bomb whenever it identifies danger to itself. Lebane…

Israel’s track record of unilaterally violating ceasefire agreements (and agreements and international law in general) is a matter of fact, not of opinion. You can look up this track record your self. What other parties do is only more to the point of how unlikely it is that it lasts.

However unlike Israel, the international community asserts pressure onto both Hamas and Hezbollah. Both are considered terrorist groups by several governments, and both are under sever international sanctions as a result. The international community is doing what they can to put pressure on Hamas and Hezbollah (with questionable results), but they are doing very little to put pressure on Israel, which is the reason I talk specifically about Israel’s track record here.

Re: Israel, Hamas agree on first phase of ceasefire, hostage release

#35

Post by tguvot »

runarberg wrote: post #34
tguvot wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's somewhat disingenuous of you to talk about Israel terrible track record when it comes to following their own peace agreements and referring to ceasefires as example while ignoring actual peace agreements that been rocks solid for decades. Ceasefire with hezbollah/lebnon has part that says that in case hezbollah doesn't get disarmed Israel has right to casually bomb whenever it identifies danger to itself. Lebane…

Israel’s track record of unilaterally violating ceasefire agreements (and agreements and international law in general) is a matter of fact, not of opinion. You can look up this track record your self. What other parties do is only more to the point of how unlikely it is that it lasts. However unlike Israel, the international community asserts pressure onto both Hamas and Hezbollah. Both are considered terrorist group…

[flagged]

Re: Israel, Hamas agree on first phase of ceasefire, hostage release

#36

Post by bobxmax »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #22
bobxmax wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite an odd request to ask Hamas to disarm.

It absolutely isn't. They attacked Israel, got defeated and usually you would require an unconditional surrender. Basic laws of warfare. Hamas is an exception because it believes in martyr death and would drag the whole population in Gaza with them. That is new and unprecedented.

You're right. Mandela and the ANC should've disarmed. Basic laws of warfare.

Re: Israel, Hamas agree on first phase of ceasefire, hostage release

#37

Post by raxxorraxor »

runarberg wrote: post #30
raxxorraxor wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Please, enough with the genocide denial. Genocide denial is a form of hate speech and has no place on a tech forum.

I mean we don't have to guess here, we will see in a few weeks.

Re: Israel, Hamas agree on first phase of ceasefire, hostage release

#38

Post by raxxorraxor »

ebbi wrote: post #7

Let's hope Israel actually sticks to this ceasefire deal this time.

What a laughable suggestion. Sure, that is the problem...

The reality is that Israel always extended a hand which Palestinians or their representatives more or less cut off immediately.

Re: Israel, Hamas agree on first phase of ceasefire, hostage release

#39

Post by raxxorraxor »

bobxmax wrote: post #36
raxxorraxor wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely isn't. They attacked Israel, got defeated and usually you would require an unconditional surrender. Basic laws of warfare. Hamas is an exception because it believes in martyr death and would drag the whole population in Gaza with them. That is new and unprecedented.

You're right. Mandela and the ANC should've disarmed. Basic laws of warfare.

I am very excited to hear how that is relevant or comparable.

Re: Israel, Hamas agree on first phase of ceasefire, hostage release

#40

Post by bigyabai »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #38
ebbi wrote: post #7

Let's hope Israel actually sticks to this ceasefire deal this time.

What a laughable suggestion. Sure, that is the problem... The reality is that Israel always extended a hand which Palestinians or their representatives more or less cut off immediately.

Don't jump to conclusions before things play out. You can cite sources; we're all adults here, there's no need for pejorative "the reality is" moping without some proof.

We'll see how things go, both sides have made their fair share of mistakes thus far.

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