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ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

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Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#31

Post by JumpCrisscross »

nielsbot wrote: post #27
theultdev wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federal law supersedes state law. ICE is simply enforcing federal immigration laws.

Do you agree enforcing immigration laws in this way is good and/or important? If so, can I ask why? What is our end goal?

> can I ask why?

Simply put, Americans gave Republicans a popular mandate to reduce illegal immigration.

Much of this was economic: illegal immigrants dilute the labour force. Some, particularly among Latin Americans, rose from perceived injustice: it’s frustrating to go through the American immigration process only to see someone who skipped it live a similar life. Some, e.g. those focused on crime, were just racists.

If ICE were simply enforcing the law, I don’t think there would be a national outcry. The problem is they aren’t. All while blowing the military budget of Saudi Arabia [1][2] to accomplish what Obama did with a tenth as much.

[1] https://breakingdefense.com/2025/02/saudi-arabia-increases-d...

[2] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ice-budget-big-beautiful-b...

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#32

Post by softwaredoug »

leakycap wrote: post #2

> the relationship between the agency and the company predates the Trump administration IMSI catchers/stingrays have been common practice in local law enforcement for decades, haven't they? How is this different? > Some cell-site simulators can also intercept regular calls, text messages, and internet traffic. In what decade was this true, other than text messages? I don't think it is very easy even for an IMSI catch…

If they act as MITM, they can intercept cell phone calls.

Stingrays are somewhat it common practice. But they force every device to attach to look for the one they want. And its reasonable to feel queasy about that for any number of reasons.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#33

Post by code_runner »

cosmicgadget wrote: post #13
hedora wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's different because ICE is a paramilitary group operating illegally inside the US. They don't get warrants, engage in racial profiling, disappeared 2/3rds of the people sent to some of their facilities, arrest citizens, assault peaceful protesters, etc. They're doing this over the objection of state and local authorities, and despite the fact that their actions have been repeatedly ruled illegal by the courts.

It is critical to understand that as a general rule, what they are doing is completely legal. We created the conditions for this to happen and are empowered to change it.

If you mean we created an environment where people could come and find success and live their lives, and we perhaps weren’t as strict as we could’ve been in some situations… I don’t think that violently kidnapping people off the streets, without showing badges, in unmarked vehicles, masked, etc is a punishment that fits the crime.

Missing a court date once multiple years ago, failing to navigate a complex process, and even intentionally over staying a tourist visa does not warrant the loss of humanity, due process, basic rights, dignity, and humanity

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#34

Post by auguzanellato »

nickthegreek wrote: post #12

anytime these type of stories come up, its helpful for someone to post about ieee's rayhunter opensource project. https://github.com/EFForg/rayhunter which pairs nicely with a https://www.amazon.com/Orbic-Verizon-Hotspot-Connect-Enabled...

Another nice tool is CellGuard

https://cellguard.seemoo.de/

It works on iOS devices without any extra hardware, even on non jailbroken devices, by analyzing baseband debug logs exported by the OS.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#35

Post by nulbyte »

theultdev wrote: post #9
kokanee wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might not like the tone, but I don't see what makes the words false. "Paramilitary" describes a non-military group behaving similarly to a military group, and we're talking about armed masked men sweeping homes, taking prisoners, and engaging in violent conflicts. "Operating illegally" means that federal, state, or local laws have been broken, and that seems to be the case, e.g. Gonzalez v. ICE.

Federal law supersedes state law. ICE is simply enforcing federal immigration laws.

I don't know why this was flagged. It may be wrong, but I think it worth discussing to correct.

Not all of Federal law supersedes state law. The Tenth Amendment clarifies:

> The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

If it's not given to the federal government to regulate, the federal government can't regulate it.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#36

Post by cosmicgadget »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #15
cosmicgadget wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is critical to understand that as a general rule, what they are doing is completely legal. We created the conditions for this to happen and are empowered to change it.

> as a general rule, what they are doing is completely legal In general, particularly in the past, yes. Currently, a statistically significant number of ICE agents are acting outside the colour of law, in some cases with possibly treasonous intent.

Huh? They're either chasing down people with an administrative warrant (which as far as I can tell are largely valid) or they're using reasonable suspicion which SCOTUS just decided can be determined by a combination of ethnic, economic, and geographic factors. The latter seems wrongly-decided but it is lawful by definition.

What actions are you referring to and what is the treasonous intent? They seem to just be self-selected xenophobes trying to chase bonus money.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#37

Post by gruez »

nulbyte wrote: post #25
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why aren't they using the official lawful interception interfaces? They may not want to leave a paper trail. “To obtain a [legal] wiretap order, law enforcement must demonstrate probable cause to a judge” [1]. Given ICE has been arresting Americans, they probably aren’t bothering with cause. Legal intercepts also require “minimization procedures to limit the interception of conversations unrelated to the investigat…

But, isn't intercepting communications using a fake cell tower a wiretap?

>But, isn't intercepting communications using a fake cell tower a wiretap?

The article doesn't actually mention what ICE is actually using the cell site simulators for. It's possible that they're only collecting IMSIs and not text/voice traffic, which might still be wiretapping, but it'd be more difficult to argue in front of a judge.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#38

Post by cosmicgadget »

softwaredoug wrote: post #30
cosmicgadget wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is critical to understand that as a general rule, what they are doing is completely legal. We created the conditions for this to happen and are empowered to change it.

I mean slavery was legal, Jim Crow was legal... A lot of things are legal and still wrong based on our core principles as a country. Its our duty to oppose them.

So call what they're doing 'wrong' not 'illegal'. The remedies for those two things are very different.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#39

Post by cosmicgadget »

code_runner wrote: post #33
cosmicgadget wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is critical to understand that as a general rule, what they are doing is completely legal. We created the conditions for this to happen and are empowered to change it.

If you mean we created an environment where people could come and find success and live their lives, and we perhaps weren’t as strict as we could’ve been in some situations… I don’t think that violently kidnapping people off the streets, without showing badges, in unmarked vehicles, masked, etc is a punishment that fits the crime. Missing a court date once multiple years ago, failing to navigate a complex process, an…

Agreed.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#40

Post by anigbrowl »

nulbyte wrote: post #35
theultdev wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federal law supersedes state law. ICE is simply enforcing federal immigration laws.

I don't know why this was flagged. It may be wrong, but I think it worth discussing to correct. Not all of Federal law supersedes state law. The Tenth Amendment clarifies: > The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people. If it's not given to the federal government to regulate, the federal government can'…

It hasn't been flagged.
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