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Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

theguardian.com

31–40 of 240 posts

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#31
post #10

AI is a trap too sweet to ignore. Its ruining young folks future by removing the hard effort part of learning, which then builds more resistant character which is more able to wade through daily crap of our adult lives. Some sort of patience with life, its not a skill that comes on its own. And clearly its (almost) everywhere, including companies who should do and know better. AI will make humanity more lazy seems to…

Indeed. This is something that isn’t said a lot. A person who has been in an industry for 10+ years will be fine from exposure to LLM’s. Because they already built the discipline. Frankly if you’re an expert I don’t see where the value of an LLM fits. People keep talking about productivity increases. But that just speaks to the quantity. What about the quality? It’s tiresome to see people who just don’t get this.

Not to mention lacking the requisite knowledge whether the information is legitimate or not.

I stay slightly above my knowledge. I can ask it about concurrency patterns in Go because I can spot the bs.

But quantum physics or molecular biology? It could tell me anything that "sounds" reasonable but is completely wrong and I wouldn't know.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#32
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

It's not only "giving advice". "Consulting" includes a range of things, down to implementing software.

The customers are big companies with huge budgets, and a lot of red tape. The guarantees they want the most are legal. If things don't go well in a project, or if a project isn't implemented on time, they want to have someone to sue. Someone that will not simply go bankrupt and disappear. "Quality" is almost a nice to have, compared to the legal guarantees.

Enter the Consultancy companies. They have a huge amount of workers, a lot of them fresh out of university. The quality of the work they produce might not be great, but when problems arise, they can always throw more people at the problem (or to make them work longer unpaid hours). They are sometimes called "meatfarms", because of this. They will not go bankrupt easily.

The way these companies develop software is by third parties, often overseas, sometimes, frequently via several intermediate companies, each one adding their cut.

I must stress out that it work. Boring, soul-crushing at times. But it is not easy. Just dealing with the red tape is a job on itself. The kind of contract that needed to be written before a medium-sized project has to be very detailed. It details things like what will happen when the project derails, what will be the penalty and who will pay what. It's a small book.

Source: I was one of those "fresh out of college" people when I joined Accenture. I once was asked to estimate how much would it cost to change one (static) website's scrollbar color from default to yellow. The quote for that change alone, perhaps 10 LOC change implemented by someone in India, was 3000 euros. This was around 2010. I was glad when they offered me a severance package.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#33
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

Leaders are usually insecure. They need validation. Management consultants give it, for money. In theory, they can take the blame if things go very wrong. But in practice, management consultants tell you to do what everyone else does, and that means both leaders and consultants are saved by the "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" effect.

But there's more to it than that. Your investors don't trust you if you're not the sort to trust Deloitte. (Your investors probably also invest in Deloitte, by the way.)

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#34
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

The trope you’ll often hear in circles like ours is that big 4 consultants exist to provide cover for unpopular decisions. That’s sometimes true. However…

Big corporations and governments aren’t startups in which everyone is encouraged to do as they please in service of the mission. Corporations and governments hire people for very specific roles with very specific responsibilities. Stepping outside of your responsibilities is discouraged. Employees inside big organizations have to think, “how fucked am I if I make this decision and it goes wrong?”. A startup can write off big losses without a second thought, a big corporate or government has to investigate.

If you need to make a big decision, you don’t let an intern take a shot at it, even if they are convinced they have the perfect idea, because if it goes wrong, it’s on your head — which idiot let an intern fuck it up?

You bring in consultants who are (ostensibly) experts so that your responsibility ends at having done the right thing and if anything goes wrong, it’s not on your head.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#35
post #27

Most of the time gov, orgs and companies don't listen to their in-house engineers but will pay $$$ to some consulting firm, only to confirm the same thing or just to show that "they are taking actions towards the solution". In some cases there is distrust from management on in-house employees or in some other cases they want to show quick results without distracting their teams from their planned tasks. Of course the…

The people working inside the company may be both judge and party to the issue, it’s not always a bad idea to call in consultants. Do you prefer independent and somewhat misinformed or stakeholder to the issue and knowledgeable?

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#37
post #32
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

It's not only "giving advice". "Consulting" includes a range of things, down to implementing software. The customers are big companies with huge budgets, and a lot of red tape. The guarantees they want the most are legal. If things don't go well in a project, or if a project isn't implemented on time, they want to have someone to sue. Someone that will not simply go bankrupt and disappear. "Quality" is almost a nice…

> I once was asked to estimate how much would it cost to change one (static) website's scrollbar color from default to yellow. The quote for that change alone, perhaps 10 LOC change implemented by someone in India, was 3000 euros.

This is absolutely insane and, quite honestly, hard to believe.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#38
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

Well, when you have a bad idea you want to implement but don't want to take responsibility for it, you keep on hiring consultants until you hear what you want to hear. Quality of the consulting is irrelevant and interns or AI will do just fine. When the project inevitably implodes, you blame the consultant. Your own employees will give you advice on what's best for the company, not necessary what's best for you so yo…

it's a trope at this point.

I'm the CEO and I don't really like it when the annoying guy down the hall tells me what to do, so I'm gonna spend $50,000 and have a team come in and interview everybody and then they'll tell me the same thing the annoying guy said, for years, but because they're outside consultants, I'll listen to them when they say it.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#39
As someone who did an MBA and was groomed to be a Consultant and then repented (now a software engineer) you have to understand that the customer of a consultancy project is an exec.

1. The exec has been charged with exploring a new product space, a potential M&A deal, more vertical integration etc etc

2. The exec needs a gauge on the "size of the prize", is this thing worth doing? roughly how will it be done? how long etc.

3. The exec probably already has a rough idea or gut feeling about one such option

4. The consultants produce something that usually supports the gut feeling, other times it will suggest alternatives and provide some facts and figures to support

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#40
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

Why do you have an accountant? Or a lawyer? It's the same thing. Corporations don't have all skills in house for a ton of things.

I was an IT consultant. A big energy company wanted to go to the AWS cloud. Their folks were too busy and had no experience. We (my consultancy company) already had the knowledge.

Consultants don't only give advice. In many cases, they also do the work. But advice is also a "product". If your in-house team does not have the knowledge or time, you hire a consultancy firm.

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