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Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

pewresearch.org

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Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#31

Post by katbyte »

creato wrote: post #17
bruce511 wrote: post #13

Is it bad for society? It's certainly bad for individuals, and by extension their families. I guess if it scales up such that a serious chunk of society is affected, then yes its bad for society. Let's start with the obvious- in all forms of gambling the gamblers make a net loss. The games are hosted by very sophisticated companies, that have better mathematicians, and make money. $x is pumped into the system by the…

> Let's start with the obvious- in all forms of gambling the gamblers make a net loss. The games are hosted by very sophisticated companies, that have better mathematicians, and make money. It's not impossible to beat them consistently, but if you do, they'll limit how much you can bet or just ban you.

Seems like an easy solution is just to ban them from banning winners.

Regulate them

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#32

Post by katbyte »

technion wrote: post #30
Gunax wrote: post #24

I happen to enjoy sports gambling and would be sad to see it disappear. I'm writing this because I want you to know what you're depriving me of. Because _other_ people make poor decisions, we need to take that decision away from everyone.

How would you feel if we just banned advertising it? Im all for people like you having the right to make a choice, but the way its advertised rubs me the wrong way. Kids are encouraged to watch the games which is a bit of a family event. Then during those games, ads are just everywhere for betting. Then theres a "18+ only" fine print. We banned cigarette advertisements during sports and I would say we are better for…

Also it could do with some regulation banning people who win to much shouldn’t be allowed

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#33

Post by [deleted] »

kriops wrote: post #22
angarg12 wrote: post #16

I left my home country over 10 years ago, and ever since I've travelled back once every 1 or 2 years. Since 4-5 years ago I started to notice these betting houses cropping up where my family and friends live. They are impossible to miss, with big pictures of different sports and no windows. The most important thing to notice is where these place are and are not. They proliferate in working class and less well off nei…

Guilt by association: If, e.g., violence is a problem, then one needs to deal with the violence. In general, law-abiding citizens are—and should—be free to congregate and partake in their bad habits wherever they please. And even though gambling is generally immoral, it does not infringe on anyone else's God-given rights and has no business being made illegal. Gambling is emphasized above to emphasize we are talking…

[deleted]

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#34

Post by daymanstep »

kriops wrote: post #22
angarg12 wrote: post #16

I left my home country over 10 years ago, and ever since I've travelled back once every 1 or 2 years. Since 4-5 years ago I started to notice these betting houses cropping up where my family and friends live. They are impossible to miss, with big pictures of different sports and no windows. The most important thing to notice is where these place are and are not. They proliferate in working class and less well off nei…

Guilt by association: If, e.g., violence is a problem, then one needs to deal with the violence. In general, law-abiding citizens are—and should—be free to congregate and partake in their bad habits wherever they please. And even though gambling is generally immoral, it does not infringe on anyone else's God-given rights and has no business being made illegal. Gambling is emphasized above to emphasize we are talking…

Sports betting is not a game of pure chance, but bookmaking is arguably ethically quite problematic.

Most individuals are going up against these very sophisticated statistical models created by teams of quants working with huge datasets that you have to pay substantial amounts to access. I think most bettors don't know what they're up against.

And the bookie business model is intrinsically anti-consumer: if you win too much then the bookies will ban you. Whereas bookies are quite happy to keep taking money from addicts even when said addicts have already lost their life savings.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#35

Post by bawolff »

kriops wrote: post #22
angarg12 wrote: post #16

I left my home country over 10 years ago, and ever since I've travelled back once every 1 or 2 years. Since 4-5 years ago I started to notice these betting houses cropping up where my family and friends live. They are impossible to miss, with big pictures of different sports and no windows. The most important thing to notice is where these place are and are not. They proliferate in working class and less well off nei…

Guilt by association: If, e.g., violence is a problem, then one needs to deal with the violence. In general, law-abiding citizens are—and should—be free to congregate and partake in their bad habits wherever they please. And even though gambling is generally immoral, it does not infringe on anyone else's God-given rights and has no business being made illegal. Gambling is emphasized above to emphasize we are talking…

> And even though gambling is generally immoral, it does not infringe on anyone else's God-given rights and has no business being made illegal.

Neither does smoking, but we still limit the types of advertisements cigarette companies can make.

Gambling is ultimately a predatory business that serves to separate people susceptible to addiction from their money.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#36

Post by Fade_Dance »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #18
bruce511 wrote: post #13

Is it bad for society? It's certainly bad for individuals, and by extension their families. I guess if it scales up such that a serious chunk of society is affected, then yes its bad for society. Let's start with the obvious- in all forms of gambling the gamblers make a net loss. The games are hosted by very sophisticated companies, that have better mathematicians, and make money. $x is pumped into the system by the…

> It could be banned. Would that stop it? Probably not. Was not that big of a thing 15 years ago. The goal of a ban is not to reduce the consumption to 0, but try to lower it a significant amount. Although, since people are generally aware of it and participated in it, it might not be that easy to go back to beforetimes.

It doesn't have to be a prohibition either. Advertising could be banned. Branding could be controlled so it isn't appealing (Provider 1, Provider 2, etc). Parlay bets and "innovations" (which burn customer money 10 times faster) could be restricted. The "concierge" service that preys on the big spending addicts could be regulated/erased.

That's the sort of ban that actually works for society, because it is strongly focused on disincentivizing harmful behavior, while shutting out the black market.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#37

Post by viccis »

bruce511 wrote: post #13

Is it bad for society? It's certainly bad for individuals, and by extension their families. I guess if it scales up such that a serious chunk of society is affected, then yes its bad for society. Let's start with the obvious- in all forms of gambling the gamblers make a net loss. The games are hosted by very sophisticated companies, that have better mathematicians, and make money. $x is pumped into the system by the…

>It could be banned. Would that stop it? Probably not.

Absolutely asinine statement. Yeah no shit it's not going to deter the most degenerate of gamblers of seeking out a place to make bets. Will it stop apps being advertised on TV and the app stores from grooming new people into it? Yes. Will it stop people mildly curious from betting on sports? Yes.

If "it" in "stop it" is "all sports betting" then no, obviously. If "it" is "sports betting in normal society" then yep, it will stop it. Anyone obfuscating this simple fact wants to make money off of more human misery, remember that.

Remind me of how cigarette usage has gone in nations that ban advertisement of it.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#38

Post by RandomLensman »

SJC_Hacker wrote: post #8
pinkmuffinere wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a good question, I’m sorry you’re being downvoted. I think the difference is that buying/betting on a house or stocks are not a zero-sum game. It is feasible for everyone to buy a house, all the houses to increase in real-world value, and everyone benefit. Likewise with stocks. And on top of that effect, the bets being made are useful for society at large to make better plans, because they are a measu…

Options markets are zero sum.

Why? Both sides could use hedging, both sides could derive economic benefits, etc.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#39

Post by watwut »

kriops wrote: post #22
angarg12 wrote: post #16

I left my home country over 10 years ago, and ever since I've travelled back once every 1 or 2 years. Since 4-5 years ago I started to notice these betting houses cropping up where my family and friends live. They are impossible to miss, with big pictures of different sports and no windows. The most important thing to notice is where these place are and are not. They proliferate in working class and less well off nei…

Guilt by association: If, e.g., violence is a problem, then one needs to deal with the violence. In general, law-abiding citizens are—and should—be free to congregate and partake in their bad habits wherever they please. And even though gambling is generally immoral, it does not infringe on anyone else's God-given rights and has no business being made illegal. Gambling is emphasized above to emphasize we are talking…

Being somewhat skilled does not make it not hazard. And practices of books are purely predatory.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#40

Post by watwut »

bruce511 wrote: post #13

Is it bad for society? It's certainly bad for individuals, and by extension their families. I guess if it scales up such that a serious chunk of society is affected, then yes its bad for society. Let's start with the obvious- in all forms of gambling the gamblers make a net loss. The games are hosted by very sophisticated companies, that have better mathematicians, and make money. $x is pumped into the system by the…

> It's certainly bad for individuals, and by extension their families.

When gambler makes debt, then the partner gets half the debt in divorce. And they have to pay it.

It is not bad for families just "by extension". It is directly harming the family members even after the divorce.

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