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Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

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Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#31

Post by formerly_proven »

mrtksn wrote: post #9

It's not about paying by cash but paying by card offline. How is this going to be implemented I wonder. On planes they often accept credit cards even when there's no internet. I assume this is a trust in-credit-based system because they don't accept debit cards, i.e. if you are worth being trusted with a card you can have your sandwich now and we will take care of the bank processing once we are on the ground. So may…

There used to be a few relatively large scale stored-value card systems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stored-value_card) for general-purpose payments in the past.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#32

Post by parl_match »

kosinus wrote: post #13
mrtksn wrote: post #9

It's not about paying by cash but paying by card offline. How is this going to be implemented I wonder. On planes they often accept credit cards even when there's no internet. I assume this is a trust in-credit-based system because they don't accept debit cards, i.e. if you are worth being trusted with a card you can have your sandwich now and we will take care of the bank processing once we are on the ground. So may…

Debit cards are most definitely accepted on planes.

complicated.

star/plus/cirrus etc - pure debit-only networks - aren't accepted on a plane

debit cards that are on one of the credit card rails (visa, mastercard, etc) are very common. those work because they're just a normal visa transaction

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#33

Post by samus »

yieldcrv wrote: post #3

offline key signing and broadcasting later should be a simple thing although heavily misunderstood, this is built into cryptocurrencies since day 1 (many critics have long thought crypto requires power and internet access, many proponents also don't know otherwise) with card networks learning from competition and functionally being public-only keys, this should be even simpler to implement

Card networks have supported this mode of operation for a long time.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#35

Post by londons_explore »

obblekk wrote: post #6

1yr timeline is ambitious if it means fully deployed. Clearly the right thing for Sweden and others to do. Also worrying that even 3yrs into the Russian invasion, bordering countries are urgently increasing their preparedness for future conflicts.

The standards are already designed and widely implemented in Europe and a smallish percentage of transactions are already fully offline.

I suspect this could be implemented with just policy and config changes, with no need to reissue cards or deploy new readers.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#36

Post by al_borland »

mrtksn wrote: post #19
kosinus wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debit cards are most definitely accepted on planes.

Even without internet connection? Edit: OK maybe there's different level of trust and some take a leap of faith :) In my experience debit didn't work but it appears that its not the same everywhere.

I don’t see why not, they can be run just like a credit card through the same network.

When a debit card prompts for a PIN, don’t enter it, press submit, and it runs as credit instead of debit, but functionally works the same as far as the card-holder is concerned. It might take slightly longer to settle, and the merchant likely gets charged higher fees, but it works just fine. When I got my first debit card 20+ years ago my bank specifically told me to select credit and using it, instead of using it with the PIN as a debit card.

These days I’ve noticed the systems tend to auto-prompt for the PIN instead of asking credit or debit. But skipping it functionally works the same as pressing credit used to.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#37

Post by mosdl »

throw219080123 wrote: post #11
dboreham wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the merchant has to have a way to check for double-spending, or otherwise verify that the signed txn they have been given represents money that can be "taken to the bank". Checking the signature on some blob that says "this be money" is not enough.

True. But if the system is implemented by a country this could be implemented using the law system and insurances. For example, when each transaction is done, both parties might keep a cryptographic proof which they are required to submit once they are online again. Failing to submit could result in a small fine (to encourage submission) and double spending which can then be detected could result in a large fine (or…

You don't need a blockchain for that, see how old credit cards worked without network access.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#38

Post by mrtksn »

al_borland wrote: post #36
mrtksn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even without internet connection? Edit: OK maybe there's different level of trust and some take a leap of faith :) In my experience debit didn't work but it appears that its not the same everywhere.

I don’t see why not, they can be run just like a credit card through the same network. When a debit card prompts for a PIN, don’t enter it, press submit, and it runs as credit instead of debit, but functionally works the same as far as the card-holder is concerned. It might take slightly longer to settle, and the merchant likely gets charged higher fees, but it works just fine. When I got my first debit card 20+ year…

Having a credit card requires some amount of trustworthiness. Anyone can get a debit card, they even sell it in supermarkets.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#40

Post by Animats »

andy99 wrote: post #8

The idea of there being some "government approved" list of things people can buy with this is horrifying and exactly why cash should continue to exist.

People should still be able to buy food and essentials even during cyberattacks from Russia. That's what Sweden is preparing for.
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