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Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

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Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#31

Post by potato3732842 »

rs186 wrote: post #7

> If you have to, blame stupidity not malice > No one is out to get you; they’re just out to get through the week. The author seems to be too naive. I don't have first-hand experience, but just hearing my friends who work at a certain company talking about what's happening, I know how terrible some people can be. And that's a widespread issue (otherwise I would not hear about similar things happening to people in dif…

I don't take issue with the fact that he's naive or that his ignorance of corporate dysfunction has been shattered. You don't know what you don't know until you do.

What I take serious issue with is that there's a whole ecosystem of not identical but comparable dysfunction in academia and yet he didn't spot it or is ignoring it. That to me is indicative of bigger problems.

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#32

Post by righthand »

SilverElfin wrote: post #6
hobs wrote: post #3

"Study hard, get good grades, follow the formula and ultimately merit wins." That's really funny, I remember the day I watched a kid's femoral artery get slashed in a fight and watched my teacher use his belt as a tourniquet, thankfully the kid lived because of that. Most of my schools were taught by burnt out underpaid angry folks who wanted you to stay in line, that's it, any other behavior would be met with derisi…

> Meanwhile rich kids get into good schools because they can afford after school activities and tutors since birth. This is a myth - most non-legacy admissions kids getting into good colleges aren’t spending on these things in the way that you think. They’re getting there because they’re actually smart and hard working and have a stable environment (like two parents). It doesn’t take much to get a very high test scor…

> and have a stable environment

For example, having a good supportive community with after school programs or other youth outreach programs.

I was dining and eavesdropping a conversation at a table in a restaurant. It was a mother and 8 year old daughter talking about her future. They were talking about a career path to being a doctor, SAT scores and how she is studying right now for the SAT and other tests and the extra-curricular that would be required (whether the child naturally wanted this path is unknown). The mother remarked on another conversation with her daughter’s friend; that she did not ask the daughter’s friend about the career prospects, because she wasn’t sure if the friend had any. She didn’t want to have an awkward conversation. Notice that the supportive environment doesn’t extend to the daughter’s friend in any manner.

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#33

Post by thewebguyd »

isoprophlex wrote: post #10
apwell23 wrote: post #5

it used to be that tech provided somewhat a safe space for autists like me to hide out. now its full of management ppl who would've gone into other industries but were lured in by high pay in tech. i miss the days where tech pay only slightly above average and ppl in tech were considered losers and dorks.

Someone downvoted you and it's against the spirit of HN to challenge this because it makes for boring reading but I AGREE PEOPLE tell me WHY you find this thought distasteful or disturbing tech used to be a safe hiding spot for geeks to, idk, hack on something with total disregard for social norms and personal hygiene; now we have assholes weaponizing this by promoting RTO, hustle culture and "hurrr we are all one fa…

Also in agreement, I miss the old days.

I still find that environment somewhat over on the ops side of things (I'm a sysadmin, technically) as corporate IT is still the red-headed step child so I get left alone for the most part but its still pretty rough.

We aren't immune over in ops land though either. Still getting newbies that are in it only for the money and I've worked with people who actively hated computers and didn't enjoy the work at all, only the paycheck.

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#34

Post by Joel_Mckay »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #11
rs186 wrote: post #7

> If you have to, blame stupidity not malice > No one is out to get you; they’re just out to get through the week. The author seems to be too naive. I don't have first-hand experience, but just hearing my friends who work at a certain company talking about what's happening, I know how terrible some people can be. And that's a widespread issue (otherwise I would not hear about similar things happening to people in dif…

Yeah I think “don’t attribute to malice what can be explained be stupidity” is applied too broadly these days. There is absolutely malice behind some decisions/actions, and it’s dangerous to just shrug it off. Even more concerning, often the malicious people will hide behind stupidity.

It is not mutually exclusive, as people can be both pernicious and stupid if they choose to be...

https://harmful.cat-v.org/people/basic-laws-of-human-stupidi...

Engagement is mostly derived from upset people, and thus algorithms or clowns behave in unsustainable ways to make millions of pennies.

Academic bias arises from the ivory tower phenomena in a walled garden, and if some naive kid is often told they are the best-of-the-best special... they tend to truly believe the rhetoric as they slowly indenture themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

Most HR folks quickly tire of entitled peoples petulance, as no matter how conventionally "smart" a applicant may be... no office wants to deal with drama everyday. =3

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#35

Post by everdrive »

rs186 wrote: post #7

> If you have to, blame stupidity not malice > No one is out to get you; they’re just out to get through the week. The author seems to be too naive. I don't have first-hand experience, but just hearing my friends who work at a certain company talking about what's happening, I know how terrible some people can be. And that's a widespread issue (otherwise I would not hear about similar things happening to people in dif…

I would imagine that the author is young, very intelligent, and just really starting to pick up real-world career experience. What the author points out is true, but I cannot imagine most HN readers are thinking "I'm expecting my workplace to be totally fair and merit-based, just like school was."

This statement is pretty interesting and revealing; school is very much not like that for a lot of people, and I suspect this means that the author was in a strict STEM curriculum where there can really be said to be correct vs. incorrect answers. (vs. something like English, social sciences, etc.) As noted, this likely also means that the author is just recently out of school, and is just figuring out how the real world works and how few people are capable of stepping back and judging objectively. (alternately, maybe the author has known this for years and is just writing for a younger audience)

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#36

Post by graemep »

rs186 wrote: post #7

> If you have to, blame stupidity not malice > No one is out to get you; they’re just out to get through the week. The author seems to be too naive. I don't have first-hand experience, but just hearing my friends who work at a certain company talking about what's happening, I know how terrible some people can be. And that's a widespread issue (otherwise I would not hear about similar things happening to people in dif…

It depends who you work for and what they are like.

One of the nicest things a boss has done was when it looked like I was getting the blame for something was to email everyone connected with it saying he had done it, not me.

I have worked with a lot of people like that too.

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#37

Post by rockercoaster »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #13
geocrasher wrote: post #8

My experience with school wasn't that different from work life. Lessons that I learned in school that followed: 1) I am a dork, embrace it 2) Avoid Math 3) Scientific method = troubleshooting with purpose. Use it. 4) People in charge can be total idiots, but they're still in charge 5) Popularity and Competence are not related 6) Competence and compensation are not related 7) If you stay focused and just do you, you'l…

I’m with you except for 2. Knowing math is great.

I want to disagree with 2, but OTOH it's also so easy to do that I've just accidentally done it my whole life.

20 year programming career and I've never engaged with math beyond approximately Algebra II, in the real world. Hell, I go years at a time not needing anything trickier than Algebra I.

Nearly all of the math I actually use I learned in the 6th grade or earlier, overwhelmingly elementary school arithmetic—mostly the "bad" kind I got from memorization-based practice that mathematicians seem to hate even though it's a contender for the best bang-for-buck of almost my entire educational career, plus a lot of fractions-related stuff (so, so very many people are terrible at this, can't even do basic things, IME it's where an awful lot of people permanently fall off the math-train, way back in like 3rd grade), basic arithmetic, and pre-algebra-tier simple variable substitution.

Every now and then I get a bug up my ass to try to expand my math abilities, but 1) I'm so goddamn rusty at this point because I never use any of it that I have to start back at brushing up on high school stuff, which is discouraging, and 2) I'm not even really sure what I'm going to do with it (long experience suggests: nothing) so the motivation fades fast.

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#38

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

graemep wrote: post #36
rs186 wrote: post #7

> If you have to, blame stupidity not malice > No one is out to get you; they’re just out to get through the week. The author seems to be too naive. I don't have first-hand experience, but just hearing my friends who work at a certain company talking about what's happening, I know how terrible some people can be. And that's a widespread issue (otherwise I would not hear about similar things happening to people in dif…

It depends who you work for and what they are like. One of the nicest things a boss has done was when it looked like I was getting the blame for something was to email everyone connected with it saying he had done it, not me. I have worked with a lot of people like that too.

That was my management philosophy.

If things go good, the team gets the credit.

If things go bad, it's my fault.

Management 101. It's shocking how few managers know this simple motivational technique. The team appreciates it, because they know you have their back, and your managers appreciate it, because it's easy to fix the blame, and they [may] respect you, for doing it.

Re: Work is not school: Surviving institutional stupidity

#40

Post by yoyohello13 »

rockercoaster wrote: post #37
yoyohello13 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m with you except for 2. Knowing math is great.

I want to disagree with 2, but OTOH it's also so easy to do that I've just accidentally done it my whole life. 20 year programming career and I've never engaged with math beyond approximately Algebra II, in the real world. Hell, I go years at a time not needing anything trickier than Algebra I. Nearly all of the math I actually use I learned in the 6th grade or earlier, overwhelmingly elementary school arithmetic—mos…

I do agree high level math isn't as useful for dev work. I have a masters in math and started working as a data analyst. I moved to programming years ago and I basically never really need to use the math stuff I know anymore.

Weirdly my math background is actually more useful as a 'soft' skill in my current work. I am the go to person for talking to the data analysts in my company, and having a statistics background is pretty helpful for interfacing with managers or people outside the dev department.

Every once in a while I remember an algorithm for doing something I can include in our app and feel like a God, lol.

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