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Selling Lemons

frankchimero.com

31–40 of 122 posts

Re: Selling Lemons

#31
I'm torn about online dating. It figures the real market value, the real league of possible partners, as we established that real life pick up is unwanted and creepy. Our value and league are not what we'd want and expect, no surprise.

Honestly tinder shows me profiles of all potential partners with comparable wealth, age, and status within my area which I recognize from closer and wider circle of acquaintances. Even short appearances or breakdowns the apparently have by installing and setting up the app for a day or two. Sometimes even have moments like "wow, this match would be a romantic comedy plot with reunion after a decade". Then... they just swipe me left and continue complaining that there's nothing there.

Re: Selling Lemons

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reviews are the filter. They can be gamed, and that's a real issue, but it's combatable. And in any case even if you get the market down to just 'thing with good reviews' and 'thing with good [fake] reviews' that's much more manageable. So for a developer perspective all you need to achieve is that critical mass of early positive reviews, and that's not especially difficult if you have something half decent.

Speaking as an independent gamedev: review-based storefronts (e.g. steam, egs, etc) select for the 1% of hits, but offers no pathway for the midrange -- everyone else gets lumped in with the slop.

[deleted]

Re: Selling Lemons

#33
post #15

Who here remembers those old 1000+ pages thick mail-order shopping catalogues? This was a (more or less) carefully curated collection of items because the catalogs could only have a finite number of pages. When Amazon started to accept virtually unvetted product listings from third parties, they opened the floodgates for lemons. It's kind of a real world ACME equivalent now. I'm surprised that I don't make that duped…

I remember flipping through the Sear's Wish Book as child, coveting all the toys. You can still find old copies online: https://christmas.musetechnical.com/

What's actually happening is that China's manufacturing revolution has given us incredible access to cheap manufactured goods. So for instance, in the 1991 Sear's catalog an electric toothbrush costs $80 ( https://christmas.musetechnical.com/ShowCatalogPage/1991%20S... ). There are only brand name options. In terms of prevailing wages, that is about $200 in today's dollar. Now on Amazon you can get that same brand name toothbrush for $50, one quarter the price, or a nonsense-brand-name one for $10, 1/20th the price! One man's race-to-the-bottom is another's man paradise of inexpensive and abundant goods...

When China started making stuff so cheap, nobody wanted to buy a much more expensive brand-name Japanese or American or European made product. So even the brand names decided to move their production to China. But then gradually people learn there is no longer any brand name quality boost, and the Chinese manufacturers learn to sell direct to consumers, and so then you get the all the weird brand names, and consumers just buy those for cheaper since the brand names don't mean anything anymore anyways. And even if you wanted to introduce a higher quality version, there simply is no way to reliably educate the consumer and credibly prove to the consumer that your product is four times the durability at twice the price.

Thus the equilibrium is that for most products less than $100 its all going to be Chinese made, the product will be good enough that the consumer won't immediately return it, but other than that the quality is going to be mediocre, because there is no incentive to develop a brand name that stands for high quality products in that price range.

With more expensive goods, there are still are brands that pride themselves on high quality, durable products, eg, Toyota for cars, Bosch for appliances, Milwaukee for tools, Redwing for boots. But you have to do your research to know which brands are working to keep their reputation, and which brands are selling out.

Re: Selling Lemons

#34
post #15

Who here remembers those old 1000+ pages thick mail-order shopping catalogues? This was a (more or less) carefully curated collection of items because the catalogs could only have a finite number of pages. When Amazon started to accept virtually unvetted product listings from third parties, they opened the floodgates for lemons. It's kind of a real world ACME equivalent now. I'm surprised that I don't make that duped…

> The other part of the story is that a lot of formerly respectable quality brands now sell much poorer quality goods.

I've observed this too.

Somewhere, some marketing genius realized that brand reception is sticky, but changes to manufacturing processes can be rapid. There is thus an arbitrage opportunity. You start with a high-quality product with a beloved brand. You quickly change the factory to cheaply produce garbage instead. For some window of time, you can get people to buy these shitty products at a price commensurate with their brand perception and take a huge profit.

Of course, brand perception is sticky but not infinitely so and eventually information catches up with reality. Then you've permanently destroyed a brand's reputation. But for a brief moment in time, you can create a lot of shareholder value at the minor expense of making crappy products and disappointing people.

Re: Selling Lemons

#35
post #14

There’s definitely always been vibes of this off the PC market. So hard to get one that’s “nice” y’know what I mean. There are some notable high end PC vendors but they typically sell direct. In the high street, it’s lemons all the way down. Even reputable brands have to get in on the action with a lemon line. Apple’s whole thing it seems, has always to stay away from being a lemon. The only time they came close, inc…

Sure. Apples never made lemons if you completely ignore all their failures. What instantly springs to mind is the keyboard saga. Those laptops were lemons. Here are some more product failures, arguably listed there are plenty of lemons:

https://qz.com/apples-12-worst-product-failures-of-all-time-...

Not listed but I would absolutely list the screen nub a usability failure and I consider my work laptop and work phone a lemon because of it.

I’d also consider large phones a usability failure. My work phone is a Iphone 13 Mini.

Brand capture is powerful but maybe only if you’re willing to eat the propaganda.

Re: Selling Lemons

#36
>> The safest, smartest path is also the most mundane: keep the main thing the main thing. Outcomes matter, but output literally comes first. Outputs are the business to everyone outside it—what customers see, buy, and use.

I dont understand how this overcomes the problem. How do you then stand out as a candidate in a saturated lemon market of candidates for instance?

How you then stand out as an authoritiative website if the search results are lemon?

Re: Selling Lemons

#37
post #17

I actually have the Mzoo sleep mask he mentioned and I quite like it. Wirecutter recommends it and Reddit seems to agree. Doesn't negate the article, but just clarifying for anyone in the market who thinks it's a lemon.

I have the MZOO sleep mask as well and it’s the best I’ve found after trying a bunch of different brands. I bought a second as a backup and would rebuy in the future if needed.

This thread of comments seems like very nice example of "The exception that proves the rule".

Both are satisfied to have found good products, and somewhat surprised, at least tacitly acknowledging by even finding it worth commenting, that the productscape overall is basically a sea of lemons.

Cool

Re: Selling Lemons

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm. I went to school for this very purpose. It led me down a maze of software engineering jobs and eventually prof serv that I'm in now. (Yey?) The ability for anyone to learn Photoshop or learn how to create a website, create a game, create anything, content or otherwise, and sell it on the marketplace for a quick cash grab has never been easier. I think most people set out to try with their best intentions…

Reviews are the filter. They can be gamed, and that's a real issue, but it's combatable. And in any case even if you get the market down to just 'thing with good reviews' and 'thing with good [fake] reviews' that's much more manageable. So for a developer perspective all you need to achieve is that critical mass of early positive reviews, and that's not especially difficult if you have something half decent.

Historically, this gatekeeper role was held by editors. In most domains, though, we have got rid of them, for the better and the worse.

Re: Selling Lemons

#40

The rise of graphic design tools and digital printing play an interesting role in this. 20 years ago, existing as a brand required an effort and resources threshold. Even to have a logo took some level of commitment and skill. Minimum production runs on trivial things like the box insert meant there were stakes to bringing a product to market. With those barriers gone, we have more brands than ever, and they mean rel…

The brands we do have have declined - while their stocks have gone up drastically over this time. Consider the Amazon, Google, or Facebook of 20 years ago vs now. The reason is that they have made their moats and moved to rent extraction.
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