Can anyone explain iron - unless it is steel (which was not a common knowledge trough history) it is worse than bronze in every aspect. So what lead to the iron age?
A 3K-year-old copper smelting site could be key to understanding origins of iron
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Re: A 3K-year-old copper smelting site could be key to understanding origins of iron
#32Can anyone explain iron - unless it is steel (which was not a common knowledge trough history) it is worse than bronze in every aspect. So what lead to the iron age?
Anemia? Also, the earth made way more sense when it was flat.
Re: A 3K-year-old copper smelting site could be key to understanding origins of iron
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is all a digression from the main claims, so I'd prefer that people don't pull on this thread You want to say your piece and get no back-chat? Romans started to hit people with iron swords at a certain date, influencing the history of Europe substantially, so the origin of that iron age is interesting. Elsewhere, a copper smelting site of 500 BC would be interesting: consider the Moche, in Peru, who independen…
Ancient Egypt began to use iron objects centuries before most of Europe, the metal was still rare and prized Tutankhamun's dagger, for example, was crafted from iron and was probably a diplomatic gift from Mitanni (modern day Syria/Turkey) Way before your Roman Empire
>Way before your Roman Empire
Lmao the one-sided cucumber measuring going on in this whole comment chain.
Like one whole side is interested in talking about the origins of certain _types_ of metalworking and the other is more interested in chest-beating about the technicalities of who did it first.
Re: A 3K-year-old copper smelting site could be key to understanding origins of iron
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
This discovery is only of interest because the Iron-Age, as per standard-theory, started around 1200 BC. in the Caucuses/Anatolia or the near-East - which fits with another theory which claims that this allowed the "Aryans" to invade India with their technological superiority around this same time and replace the (dark-skinned) natives genetically. (Note: the above is obviously a caricature, but current versions of t…
> This is all a digression from the main claims, so I'd prefer that people don't pull on this thread You want to say your piece and get no back-chat? Romans started to hit people with iron swords at a certain date, influencing the history of Europe substantially, so the origin of that iron age is interesting. Elsewhere, a copper smelting site of 500 BC would be interesting: consider the Moche, in Peru, who independen…
Just out of curiosity, what was their deal with their precious bodily fluids? Some Dr Strangelove type paranoia? Or just a usual Friday at a swingers club?
Re: A 3K-year-old copper smelting site could be key to understanding origins of iron
#35> These discoveries give weight to a long-discussed theory that iron was invented by copper smelters.
Not to be flippant but who else could reasonably be expected to have invented it? Or is the implication that there were metalworkers at the time who weren't also copper smelters?
Re: A 3K-year-old copper smelting site could be key to understanding origins of iron
#36Can anyone explain iron - unless it is steel (which was not a common knowledge trough history) it is worse than bronze in every aspect. So what lead to the iron age?
Tin was hard to come by in those days and necessary for bronze. Late bronze age led to civilizational collapse and trade networks that distributed tin broke down. Iron was more abundant and could be more useful by itself than copper alone. May have been used for farm implements at first.
Re: A 3K-year-old copper smelting site could be key to understanding origins of iron
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is all a digression from the main claims, so I'd prefer that people don't pull on this thread You want to say your piece and get no back-chat? Romans started to hit people with iron swords at a certain date, influencing the history of Europe substantially, so the origin of that iron age is interesting. Elsewhere, a copper smelting site of 500 BC would be interesting: consider the Moche, in Peru, who independen…
Just out of curiosity, what was their deal with their precious bodily fluids? Some Dr Strangelove type paranoia? Or just a usual Friday at a swingers club?
It was all about the irrigation, apparently. It's vital to keep life-giving fluids in your irrigation canal, and by extension also in your body, otherwise you're a loser. Something along those lines.
Re: A 3K-year-old copper smelting site could be key to understanding origins of iron
#38Can anyone recommend a book (I'm imagining sort of 'coffee table' style picture book, but not necessarily) on technological advancements through human history, ideally roughly chronologically but more organised around what needed to happen before the next was possible?
A history of technology, edited by Singer, several volumes and many authors. It's old historiographically (from the Fifties) but very detailed and comprehensive; I have a recent Italian paperback edition but you should be able to find it in English easily enough. Lots of fascinating details.
I'll see if I can come up with something with more up to date scholarship / better pictures (the work above is effectively but simply illustrated).
Re: A 3K-year-old copper smelting site could be key to understanding origins of iron
#39> Sparkly hematite mineral was used as a flux by copper smelters. Its distinctive appearance may have helped to attract attention from ancient miners and prospectors. Every once in a while I pull up some Wikipedia article with idle curiosity of "If I were transported back in time, could I usefully help this get invented?" One result of this is a helpless appreciation for how complicated it can be to even identify wha…
One of the axioms I go by is that people were never stupid. Our ancestors 5000 and 10000 years ago were just as smart , intelligent and curios as we are today.
With regards to metals, I have no doubt someone, be it a kid apprentice or a master smelter, experimented with melting different rocks to see what comes out. After all, if you already know that different rocks spew out different metals (copper, tin, etc..) it logically follows that there may be more.
And then someone, be it the same person or a different person entirely, would've surely conducted experiments. After all, you already have Tin, Copper, and Bronze which combines both of them; all with different properties. Of course someone will want to know how this new shiny metal the smelter spewed out fares compared with other existing ones.
Then some smith will want to try making something with that metal, new things are exciting. Many people here are familiar with the desire to try out a new Programming language or framework just for the sake of it, and a Bronze age smith is no different. Then someone will give that mee Iron sword/knife/axe a try , duel a friend, ruin their bronze weapon, and said friend will be like "holy shit I want an iron sword too it's way too good" and bam you got a meme.
Re: A 3K-year-old copper smelting site could be key to understanding origins of iron
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
nowhere in the article do they claim its the oldest iron... they just had a theory that copper processing lead to discoveries in iron processing. the evidence they found seems to support that. theyre not claiming this particular site is where the iron age started. and it has nothing to do with what some people in india did. Maybe they too discovered iron processing through a similar process. and i dont understand wha…
"they just had a theory that copper processing lead to discoveries in iron processing." Is there any theory how it could have been any different? It sounds obvious, that advances in metal working comes from those working with metals and not from carpet makers.
i have zero background in this topic.. but if i were to guess there are >100x more ceramic kilns than there are bronze smelters
if some people chucked random ores into ceramic kilns, maybe one would get out some iron slag and then iterate from there
theres a great blog series about making iron.
https://acoup.blog/2020/09/18/collections-iron-how-did-they-...
its easy on paper, but when you get into the details its actually tricky