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Swiss voters back e-ID and abolish rental tax

swissinfo.ch

31–40 of 69 posts

Re: Swiss voters back e-ID and abolish rental tax

#31
Switzerland is transitioning to online voting, and having a digital ID for authentication is helpful for that. I hope it is used as part of the voting process.

My understanding is that the current approach for e-voting in Switzerland works with voters being sent a PIN in the mail [1]. Then the voter uses the PIN to log into the system and vote. Unfortunately that means that insecurely discarded letters from non-voters could be used to cast votes on behalf of these voters.

Some jurisdictions try to use a second factor to prevent these attacks. In Ontario, for example, many municipalities use a combination of the voter's PIN in the mail + the voter's date of birth. But a date of birth isn't really secret. Lots of people know your date of birth (especially insiders at organizations that collect this data), and it may appear in data breaches or even publicly on social media. If you're curious about this, I recently co-authored a paper which is all about security problems relating to online voting credentials in Ontario -- It's relevant to the Swiss case as well: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-032-05036-6_...

Long story short, using a digital ID to authenticate to the system (like Estonia does) goes a long way to mitigate this authentication problem. However, there are still plenty of other potential risks with online voting that are unrelated to authentication (how do you prevent ballot stuffing, clientside-vote-altering malware, falsified counts, etc). And there may be privacy risks with digital ID depending on the practical implementation.

[1] https://digital-solutions.post.ch/en/e-governmenthttps/digit...

Re: Swiss voters back e-ID and abolish rental tax

#32

Switzerland is transitioning to online voting, and having a digital ID for authentication is helpful for that. I hope it is used as part of the voting process. My understanding is that the current approach for e-voting in Switzerland works with voters being sent a PIN in the mail [1]. Then the voter uses the PIN to log into the system and vote. Unfortunately that means that insecurely discarded letters from non-voter…

How do any of these schemes ensure that votes can't be traced back to individuals? Secrecy is an important part of voting.

Re: Swiss voters back e-ID and abolish rental tax

#33
For those unfamiliar with this "rental tax": If you own a house in Switzerland, the tax office assumes that you are your own landlord and rent your house to yourself. It estimates the fictitious rent you charge yourself, and you have to pay income tax on it. The Swiss German name for this estimated rent is "Eigenmietwert" ("self-rental value") and this is what will now be abolished.

What makes this strange tax even more absurd: as you are your own landlord, your property interest rate becomes a business expense of your hypothetical rental company. So you can deduct your property interest from this income tax on the fictitious rent you pay yourself.

In effect, it is unattractive to fully repay your mortgage (you just leave enough debt to avoid the income tax), and Switzerland has the highest household debt in the world. By a large margin [0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household...

Re: Swiss voters back e-ID and abolish rental tax

#34
post #9

Abolishing rental tax is huge. What does that do for affordability?

Destroys it. The change will immediately raise property prices 5-10%. The only beneficiaries are those who own property today. It becomes harder to buy property, while people who own property free and clear get a huge tax benefit and only lose a tax deduction they weren't using. Essentially, it is generational warfare in the style of Prop. 13 in California.

Re: Swiss voters back e-ID and abolish rental tax

#35
post #34
post #9

Abolishing rental tax is huge. What does that do for affordability?

Destroys it. The change will immediately raise property prices 5-10%. The only beneficiaries are those who own property today. It becomes harder to buy property, while people who own property free and clear get a huge tax benefit and only lose a tax deduction they weren't using. Essentially, it is generational warfare in the style of Prop. 13 in California.

Why will property prices increase by 5-10%? How was that range calculated?

Re: Swiss voters back e-ID and abolish rental tax

#36
post #35
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Destroys it. The change will immediately raise property prices 5-10%. The only beneficiaries are those who own property today. It becomes harder to buy property, while people who own property free and clear get a huge tax benefit and only lose a tax deduction they weren't using. Essentially, it is generational warfare in the style of Prop. 13 in California.

Why will property prices increase by 5-10%? How was that range calculated?

It's what Swiss wealth management firms are predicting.

Re: Swiss voters back e-ID and abolish rental tax

#37
post #33

For those unfamiliar with this "rental tax": If you own a house in Switzerland, the tax office assumes that you are your own landlord and rent your house to yourself. It estimates the fictitious rent you charge yourself, and you have to pay income tax on it. The Swiss German name for this estimated rent is "Eigenmietwert" ("self-rental value") and this is what will now be abolished. What makes this strange tax even m…

I'm Belgium this rental tax is the same. You're taxed on the hypothetical rent income.

But... this is based on values of either in the 90s, or 70s.

I remember because the hypothetical income (on a yearly basis) for our 2016 new build was €1,200. Remember, income, not profit.

You couldn't rent a place within 5 miles that was below €1,000 per month.

Re: Swiss voters back e-ID and abolish rental tax

#38
post #32

Switzerland is transitioning to online voting, and having a digital ID for authentication is helpful for that. I hope it is used as part of the voting process. My understanding is that the current approach for e-voting in Switzerland works with voters being sent a PIN in the mail [1]. Then the voter uses the PIN to log into the system and vote. Unfortunately that means that insecurely discarded letters from non-voter…

How do any of these schemes ensure that votes can't be traced back to individuals? Secrecy is an important part of voting.

Different systems have different approaches. If you're a voter, you can use your web browser's developer tools to see what's going on, and part of my research is essentially doing that with systems like this.

With one Ontario online voting system used by dozens of municipalities, your choice is sent via a form submission (POST) to the server. The POST contains your choice in its body (in plain text) and your browser also sends a cookie/authorization header which contains a token which was generated by the server and given to the client when the client logged in with the PIN/birthday. In that case, the online voting system could identify you and who you voted for at the time the request is made (they receive both the authorization token linked to your identity and the vote in the same request). The vendors then takes procedural steps to then separate you from your vote, and the elections authority running the election receives a report of the totals (but not who each voter voted for) from the vendor.

However, other systems are a bit more complicated. They'll serve you client-side javascript which does cryptography with your PIN / voting choice such that you can prove to the server you are authorized and made a valid vote, but the server can't link your vote to your identity. Then there's a lot of stuff that happens to mix votes together before they are unsealed and counted. I'm not a cryptographer, so I can't give you the best explanation off the dome.

The Swiss system does try to do something that looks like the latter approach, and they hire cryptographers and security professionals (and have public testing) to ensure the system's design meets requirements for ballot secrecy and if the implementation is correct.

There's a video about how ballot secrecy is ensured with the Swiss system which you can watch at this link:

https://digital-solutions.post.ch/en/e-governmenthttps/digit...

Re: Swiss voters back e-ID and abolish rental tax

#39
A sad development. At least in the US, the fact that rent is taxable income to the landlord but imputed rent is untaxed is a regressive tax break for property owners (and was apparently a mistake of the original Form 1040; see Lawrence Zelenak, “The Early Income Tax and the Imputed Rental Income of Homeowners” https://doi.org/10.1017/9781108377157.008). I wonder what convinced majority-renter Swiss voters to enact such a tax break?

Re: Swiss voters back e-ID and abolish rental tax

#40
post #39

A sad development. At least in the US, the fact that rent is taxable income to the landlord but imputed rent is untaxed is a regressive tax break for property owners (and was apparently a mistake of the original Form 1040; see Lawrence Zelenak, “The Early Income Tax and the Imputed Rental Income of Homeowners” https://doi.org/10.1017/9781108377157.008 ). I wonder what convinced majority-renter Swiss voters to enact s…

Wages are taxable income to workers but imputed wages are untaxed. That’s a regressive tax break for people who cook their own food and care for their own children.
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