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Solar panels + cold = A potential problem

linspyre.com

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Re: Solar panels + cold = A potential problem

#31

Post by cornholio »

leoedin wrote: post #28
teiferer wrote: post #25

Maybe they should just improve their product to make it more resiliant, rather than blaming customers for thinking that 148 V is below 150 V? Not everybody buying these has a Ph.D. in physics and if it says 148 V on the label and 150 V on the other label then it's your product that has a problem, not the customer. And no matter what happens, customer support should help the customer, not blame them.

In both examples given you can have 2 panels in series. So given that in almost all use cases, you can have 2 panels in series, they should just say “max 2 panels in series”. Simple. A good product hides complexity from the user with sane defaults and optional advanced configuration. This feels like the same problem.

Panels are not standardized and are themselves series-parallel constructions with wildly diverse specs.

Re: Solar panels + cold = A potential problem

#32

Post by delusional »

geocar wrote: post #29
teiferer wrote: post #25

Maybe they should just improve their product to make it more resiliant, rather than blaming customers for thinking that 148 V is below 150 V? Not everybody buying these has a Ph.D. in physics and if it says 148 V on the label and 150 V on the other label then it's your product that has a problem, not the customer. And no matter what happens, customer support should help the customer, not blame them.

> Not everybody buying these has a Ph.D. in physics and if it says 148 V on the label and 150 V on the other label then it's your product that has a problem, not the customer. Idk. I don't have a PHD, but 220V sounds like 240V to me. I wouldn't do this. I feel like getting advice about how to wire up electronics should not be so hard. > Maybe they should just improve their product to make it more resiliant Adding "re…

> Making a web page to educate future customers seems like a really good idea

I don't think this is an official website of ecoflow.

Other than that I agree. I don't think asking for a bit of knowledge from the customers is a bad thing. A warning in the manual about safety factors should be enough.

Re: Solar panels + cold = A potential problem

#33

Post by xenadu02 »

geocar wrote: post #29
teiferer wrote: post #25

Maybe they should just improve their product to make it more resiliant, rather than blaming customers for thinking that 148 V is below 150 V? Not everybody buying these has a Ph.D. in physics and if it says 148 V on the label and 150 V on the other label then it's your product that has a problem, not the customer. And no matter what happens, customer support should help the customer, not blame them.

> Not everybody buying these has a Ph.D. in physics and if it says 148 V on the label and 150 V on the other label then it's your product that has a problem, not the customer. Idk. I don't have a PHD, but 220V sounds like 240V to me. I wouldn't do this. I feel like getting advice about how to wire up electronics should not be so hard. > Maybe they should just improve their product to make it more resiliant Adding "re…

They're just being cheap. If you're going to let customers plug panels directly into your box you should have overvoltage protection. It's that simple.

Re: Solar panels + cold = A potential problem

#34

Post by Zanfa »

teiferer wrote: post #25

Maybe they should just improve their product to make it more resiliant, rather than blaming customers for thinking that 148 V is below 150 V? Not everybody buying these has a Ph.D. in physics and if it says 148 V on the label and 150 V on the other label then it's your product that has a problem, not the customer. And no matter what happens, customer support should help the customer, not blame them.

This is 100% on the manufacturer if they intentionally chose to highlight the "best case" 150V, rather than the 120V lower end. Especially without any additional safety mechanisms.

Re: Solar panels + cold = A potential problem

#35

Post by bob1029 »

I never tried the solar charging on my ecoflow so this fragility surprises me a bit.

I've been able to run laundry in a machine with a 1/2hp motor using the inverter side on multiple occasions. No smoke or funny smells. My 2200w generator would trip out the instant the spin cycle tried to start.

Re: Solar panels + cold = A potential problem

#36

Post by cornholio »

geocar wrote: post #29
teiferer wrote: post #25

Maybe they should just improve their product to make it more resiliant, rather than blaming customers for thinking that 148 V is below 150 V? Not everybody buying these has a Ph.D. in physics and if it says 148 V on the label and 150 V on the other label then it's your product that has a problem, not the customer. And no matter what happens, customer support should help the customer, not blame them.

> Not everybody buying these has a Ph.D. in physics and if it says 148 V on the label and 150 V on the other label then it's your product that has a problem, not the customer. Idk. I don't have a PHD, but 220V sounds like 240V to me. I wouldn't do this. I feel like getting advice about how to wire up electronics should not be so hard. > Maybe they should just improve their product to make it more resiliant Adding "re…

> Adding "resilience" usually adds to the per-unit cost.

In this case, the cost is much less than a dollar (say, a varistor that blows the existing fuse) and it prevents a catastrophic failure.

Re: Solar panels + cold = A potential problem

#37

Post by Animats »

quailfarmer wrote: post #22
Animats wrote: post #11

Why doesn't this just produce a shutdown? Inverters have to track voltage and current on the input and outputs sides, and can turn themselves off. They shouldn't be that close to the absolute maximum voltage ratings on the components. Too much current is a heat dissipation problem, and you've got some time to deal with that, at least tens of milliseconds. Anyone have a teardown on these things? Are they using under-r…

High voltage, low RDSON FETs are (slightly) more expensive, and these products are cheap. A better design would use a higher-voltage rated input switch with poor (slow) switching performance, like an IGBT. Don’t design critical infrastructure around EcoFlow hardware.

Fujitsu, which sells MOSFETs for this application, writes: "Firstly devices should be rated at 600V or 650V, as this will generally provide more than adequate protection against the threat of high voltage transients."[1] That's a nice big safety margin. It should hold until the voltage monitoring shuts the whole thing off.

Not seeing UL certification on this thing.

If we're going to have US protectionism against China, a good first step would be to require UL-type testing, carried out in the US, on all imported electrical devices that run on more than 12VDC or contain a battery chemistry capable of thermal runaway. Electrical safety is a solved problem if you can keep people from cheating.

[1] https://toshiba.semicon-storage.com/eu/semiconductor/design-...

Re: Solar panels + cold = A potential problem

#38

Post by hdgvhicv »

therein wrote: post #4

I am sure many are familiar but I found it amusing when someone explained to me why it is called magic smoke. It is because electronics work through magic so when you let the magic smoke out, they stop working.

Devices run on magic smoke. When something bad happens the smoke escapes and thus the device no longer works.

This is proven by observation - the only thing you see charge is the smoke escaping.

Re: Solar panels + cold = A potential problem

#39

Post by marginalia_nu »

righthand wrote: post #30

Current title is actually a subtitle. Actual title: `Solar Panels + Cold = A Potential Problem`

To be honest I went into it half expecting it to be about papal elections[1].

[1] https://theconversation.com/conclave-the-chemistry-behind-th...

Re: Solar panels + cold = A potential problem

#40

Post by tgv »

righthand wrote: post #30

Current title is actually a subtitle. Actual title: `Solar Panels + Cold = A Potential Problem`

The subtitle is, though, and I do find a problem with it. There might be someone out there (possibly not sober) who thinks "Magic smoke? Let's see some!" It also somewhat distorts the original. It should be more like "unless you want the magic smoke to escape." The smoke's magic properties are gone once that happens. At least, nobody has ever proven the escapee smoke has any.
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