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ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

metalhearf.fr

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Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#31

Post by quotemstr »

astroflection wrote: post #16

Governments should be transparent and the people should be opaque. Any government that attempts to make things otherwise looses legitimacy.

Or as someone put it, "People shouldn't fear the government. The government should fear the people."

I feel like we've lost the vocabulary we ought to be using to talk about the legitimacy and role of the state. More people need to read J.S. Mill (and probably Hobbes.) Even today, works by both are surprisingly good reads and embed a lot of thoughtful and timeless wisdom.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#33

Post by vessenes »

This was precisely some of the motivation behind pushing RCS onto Apple. The RCS spec has a termination point between providers -- a great spot to read some data for telecom providers and government agencies. Despite this, RCS is called "End to End" all the time. It's not. Use Signal or iMessage, depending on your security choices in iCloud.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#34

Post by fsckboy »

quotemstr wrote: post #26
contravariant wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The accepted solution is to have a constitution that says otherwise. Which is a bit complicated here, as the EU has no real constitution and this 'law' (really a regulation) is a blatant violation of the constitutions of countries that did choose to establish secrecy of correspondence.

> The accepted solution is to have a constitution that says otherwise. Constitutions don't enforce themselves. The US constitution has a crystal clear right to bear arms but multiple jurisdictions ignore it and multiple supreme court rulings and make firearm ownership functionally impossible anyway. Free speech regulations have, thankfully, been more robust. The only thing that stops bad things happening is a critica…

i think making your argument on free speech grounds would be stronger

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#38

Post by layer8 »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #4
haolez wrote: post #3

I think the challenge for society here is not to simply reject attempts like this, but how to prevent them from being pushed over and over until a specific context allows it to be approved.

Agreed. In this case, there needs to be some sort of 'privacy bill of rights'. Something fundamental where any law like this cannot be passed.

This exists. But courts have to balance conflicting rights, so there is always room for interpretation.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#39

Post by rsynnott »

contravariant wrote: post #5
haolez wrote: post #3

I think the challenge for society here is not to simply reject attempts like this, but how to prevent them from being pushed over and over until a specific context allows it to be approved.

The accepted solution is to have a constitution that says otherwise. Which is a bit complicated here, as the EU has no real constitution and this 'law' (really a regulation) is a blatant violation of the constitutions of countries that did choose to establish secrecy of correspondence.

For practical purposes the EU does have a constitution, it's just a messy collection of treaties rather than a single codified constitution (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitu... for why).

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#40

Post by quotemstr »

fsckboy wrote: post #34
quotemstr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The accepted solution is to have a constitution that says otherwise. Constitutions don't enforce themselves. The US constitution has a crystal clear right to bear arms but multiple jurisdictions ignore it and multiple supreme court rulings and make firearm ownership functionally impossible anyway. Free speech regulations have, thankfully, been more robust. The only thing that stops bad things happening is a critica…

i think making your argument on free speech grounds would be stronger

How so? My point is that US constitutional protections on firearm ownership have undeniably eroded. The presence of text on the page did not prevent this erosion. I'm using gun rights as an example of a situation in which text granting a right becomes irrelevant if people stop believing in the values behind the text.

People do believe in freedom of speech in the US, thankfully, even if they've stopped defending gun rights in some places.

EU free speech protections are in the same position gun rights are in the US, and for surprisingly similar reasons.

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