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Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

arxiv.org

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Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#31

Post by davidw »

YeCKqkhM wrote: post #24
davidw wrote: post #2

The so-called 'elite' in the US, from politicians to journalists to venture capitalists and business leaders, are not looking all that great right now from my point of view, with a few exceptions.

This post feels like a political statement but is too vague to discern any specific point from it. Sounds like something a bad guy in a Call of Duty game would say

Hi random letters new account guy:

The point is that 'merit' and the 'elite' in the US feel like they're an ocean apart right now in a lot of cases.

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#32

Post by eirikbakke »

hearsathought wrote: post #14
KittenInABox wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should be more generous, given the fact that we cannot reproduce many findings in our own field (computer science) given the hardware to do so is limited to such few entities...

> I think we should be more generous We really shouldn't. > given the fact that we cannot reproduce many findings in our own field (computer science) Computer science isn't a "science". Computer science is really a branch of mathematics. For example, when you study computation theory, you prove theorems (deduction). You don't generate a hypothesis and test it. > given the hardware to do so is limited to such few enti…

CS theory is indeed closer to mathematics. But other areas--database systems, computer architecture, networking, user interface design etc., is in fact evaluated via experiments, which is what makes it "science".

For example, if you propose some new technique to make databases faster (e.g. "store tuples column-wise instead of row-wise"), you'll implement it and run various workloads with and without the technique enabled. That gives you a quantitative measurement of the merit of the technique.

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#33

Post by lostmsu »

nemomarx wrote: post #21
crmd wrote: post #12

This paper perfectly demonstrates two HR axioms I have observed in a 20 year tech journey from IC system engineer to retired unicorn CTO: 1. Total compensation varies obscenely within the organization. It correlates moderately with intelligence and in no way with effort. Some of the most useless articles you work with make the most money. 2. Leadership really, really, really does not want peers sharing compensation i…

How enforceable is a condition like that?

It is illegal in several US states, including WA.

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#34

Post by bryanrasmussen »

nemomarx wrote: post #21
crmd wrote: post #12

This paper perfectly demonstrates two HR axioms I have observed in a 20 year tech journey from IC system engineer to retired unicorn CTO: 1. Total compensation varies obscenely within the organization. It correlates moderately with intelligence and in no way with effort. Some of the most useless articles you work with make the most money. 2. Leadership really, really, really does not want peers sharing compensation i…

How enforceable is a condition like that?

surely that depends on the jurisdiction and provability.

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#35

Post by lostmsu »

KittenInABox wrote: post #9
kelseyfrog wrote: post #3

Yawn. Call me back when it's been reproduced. Remember folks, we cannot cherry pick from the failed science of psychology even when it appears to be interesting.

I think we should be more generous, given the fact that we cannot reproduce many findings in our own field (computer science) given the hardware to do so is limited to such few entities...

Have you actually tried training a 10MB MoE (that would train in a few days on 3090)?

I came to an opinion that most of the current AI research can be easily reproduced on the small scale. CoT is possibly the only exception as it sounds like it requires certain emergent behavior, but even there I am not sure it is impossible to retrofit to tiny models.

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#36

Post by bryanrasmussen »

eirikbakke wrote: post #32
hearsathought wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think we should be more generous We really shouldn't. > given the fact that we cannot reproduce many findings in our own field (computer science) Computer science isn't a "science". Computer science is really a branch of mathematics. For example, when you study computation theory, you prove theorems (deduction). You don't generate a hypothesis and test it. > given the hardware to do so is limited to such few enti…

CS theory is indeed closer to mathematics. But other areas--database systems, computer architecture, networking, user interface design etc., is in fact evaluated via experiments, which is what makes it "science". For example, if you propose some new technique to make databases faster (e.g. "store tuples column-wise instead of row-wise"), you'll implement it and run various workloads with and without the technique ena…

I believe that falls under what the OP called engineering, which is fair as in engineering one often has to run experiments to determine if what one thinks will work in the particular case actually works.

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#38

Post by jldugger »

nemomarx wrote: post #21
crmd wrote: post #12

This paper perfectly demonstrates two HR axioms I have observed in a 20 year tech journey from IC system engineer to retired unicorn CTO: 1. Total compensation varies obscenely within the organization. It correlates moderately with intelligence and in no way with effort. Some of the most useless articles you work with make the most money. 2. Leadership really, really, really does not want peers sharing compensation i…

How enforceable is a condition like that?

Depends on how willing you are to drive a Lamborghini to work.

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#39

Post by teamonkey »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #13
Romario77 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the experiment compares MBA Ivy league students to the general population. Yes, everyone looks after their own interests, but some more than others, like in this example the students above: > implement substantially more unequal earnings distributions than the average American

If you are, or consider yourself, part of the top "performers" you have a self-interest incentive to favour this because you expect to be among the "winners" and don't want to share with the "losers". I.e., unequal earnings distribution looks better and better as you climb the social ladder because you benefit more and more. On the other hand, if you are at the bottom you may strongly support more equal distibution b…

Don’t hire the best people in order to make yourself look better. Got it.

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#40

Post by paulsutter »

lefstathiou wrote: post #15

My two cents, I believe there is an nuance worth deliniating, specifically differentiating between being elite "in status" vs being elite "in nature." Painting broad strokes here for the sake of this post (so take with a grain of salt)... Many people born into or groomed for an elite status (via inherited wealth, rich families, strong support systems, etc) are rationally self preservationists. They were born on third…

Easy solution - put quotes around “elites”.

Or use the accurate term: elitists

The people popularly referred to as “elites” are in practice status seekers who adhere to elitism, the belief that certain people are superior to others. Using the word “elites” without quotes is really creepy

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