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Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

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Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#31

Post by cyberax »

barrenko wrote: post #6
OccamsMirror wrote: post #2

It must be really frustrating be on the receiving end of sanctions. The ugly truth about sanctions is that they punish the people more than the aristocracy. But they're still better than wars.

The point is to get people in those contries to overthrow their leadership. And if your're someone sliding into nasty leadership / government situation you have to realize there will be a consequence to that and that the perception of the ruling party can never be separated from the perception of the people.

> The point is to get people in those contries to overthrow their leadership.

Iranians had several mass uprisings that were suppressed by the military. And the top military and religious authorities in Iran have no problems whatsoever living well, even with all the sanctions.

Just like the Russian elites, btw. They can't visit France as easily anymore, but there's always Dubai available. That can't care less where your money comes from.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#32

Post by sorushn »

> I am NOT asking for the removal of the sanctions targeted at the Islamic Republic of Iran.

All sanctions are designed to hurt civilians, so that they may overthrow their government. Just a bullying tactic by the US with zero moral justifications, despite how it's framed by the media.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#34

Post by preisschild »

barrenko wrote: post #6
OccamsMirror wrote: post #2

It must be really frustrating be on the receiving end of sanctions. The ugly truth about sanctions is that they punish the people more than the aristocracy. But they're still better than wars.

The point is to get people in those contries to overthrow their leadership. And if your're someone sliding into nasty leadership / government situation you have to realize there will be a consequence to that and that the perception of the ruling party can never be separated from the perception of the people.

It also makes it harder to build weapons for example. Ruzzians for example rely on western chips and other parts for their weapon systems and due to the sanctions they need to smuggle those parts, which makes it more expansive for them.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#35

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

barrenko wrote: post #6
OccamsMirror wrote: post #2

It must be really frustrating be on the receiving end of sanctions. The ugly truth about sanctions is that they punish the people more than the aristocracy. But they're still better than wars.

The point is to get people in those contries to overthrow their leadership. And if your're someone sliding into nasty leadership / government situation you have to realize there will be a consequence to that and that the perception of the ruling party can never be separated from the perception of the people.

> The point is to get people in those contries to overthrow their leadership.

That's the theory, but has it ever worked?

That something that never works (not even in cases where it has been going on for multiple generations, as in the case of Cuba or Iran) keeps being tried makes it impossible to believe that the intention is making it "work" in the sense you mean. The sanctions are just to sink those countries for political interest. Which in some cases makes sense (e.g. Russia, as it's invading Ukraine and sinking its economy can be a deterrent in that respect), but in others is definitely evil.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#36

Post by dijit »

bibelo wrote: post #28
dijit wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sanctions don’t apply to Iranians in the US, and not everyone in Iran is Iranian (or even Arab); so sanctions are not “racist”, they’re levied against political leadership. The idea is to get the population to put pressure on the leaders. Not sure if it has worked, but I am sure Russia is unhappy with the unrest that sanctions have caused.

You're mixing political sanctions and sanctions from private companies and paid-for services. It's like your local bakery refusing to sell a donut to a random iranian guy.

As a private individual, I am forced to apply the sanctions the country imposes.

A US baker cannot send cakes to Iran.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#37

Post by tgma »

adastra22 wrote: post #20

OP, some context from the other side might be helpful. Yes, there are fines for American companies if they do business with Iranians. That's how sanctions work as I'm sure you're aware. But the story doesn't stop there. If an American finds out they are transacting with a sanctioned individual, or citizens of a sanctioned country like Iran or North Korea, the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal p…

This is partially true, but not the entirety of the story.

There are blanket sanction waivers (General License) by OFAC to allow certain things. There's also the possibility to get an OFAC license (as GitHub did.)

The real issue is there is little to no advantage (realistically no money to be gained from Iran) or even awareness (sometimes the cloud infrastructure bans Iran by default and you don't have enough users to even know that's the case to care.) The legal counsels would generally be conservative and advise against it; there needs to be someone from the business side, e.g. a product manager that cares enough to try to push back on the legal. There often is not or it is hard to justify the tiniest risk, hence you block.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#38

Post by Schnitz »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #10

The stupid thing about those indiscriminate sanctions is that it goes against the very values the West is pretending to defend. EU charter of Human Rights is explicit about condemning collective responsibility, universal declaration of human rights demands justice to be applied reasonably and individually, yet here we are: punishing people without trial. Do those sanctions even work? North Korea still builds nuclear…

Sanctions work, but not in the way that is the common public perception. The expectation isn’t that Russia or whoever falls apart a few weeks after we lock them out of Visa payment rails or whatever. The reality is that the sanctions stifle economic growth and that effect is compounding. Even if sanctions only reduce growth by 1 percentage point, after ~19 years your economy is already 20% smaller than it would be without sanctions and that is measurable. From a national security perspective, it makes Russia a lot less concerning if their industrial output is 20% less. Now imagine trying to start a software business in Iran, the stifling effect is way higher than a measly percentage point. Note that I’m not making a moral judgement, I’m simply sharing my understanding of sanctions.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#39

Post by hks0 »

barrenko wrote: post #6
OccamsMirror wrote: post #2

It must be really frustrating be on the receiving end of sanctions. The ugly truth about sanctions is that they punish the people more than the aristocracy. But they're still better than wars.

The point is to get people in those contries to overthrow their leadership. And if your're someone sliding into nasty leadership / government situation you have to realize there will be a consequence to that and that the perception of the ruling party can never be separated from the perception of the people.

No country should generally decide something for people of another country, but let's say it's a exceptional case and it's a war tactic, as a response to an external threat.

Then half a decade shows that point is not relevant or, the overthrowing is not the point at all.

I too wished the wolrd was that simple. But there are dictatorships, who kill, slaughter, coerce, ... and also all the international affairs from which those people are kept an outsider with zero say by the said government. I don't think we can reduce it to "it's people's fault".

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#40

Post by tmnvdb »

sorushn wrote: post #32

> I am NOT asking for the removal of the sanctions targeted at the Islamic Republic of Iran. All sanctions are designed to hurt civilians, so that they may overthrow their government. Just a bullying tactic by the US with zero moral justifications, despite how it's framed by the media.

Citation needed. As far is I know this is simply false. Different sanctions have different goals. Regime change is very rarely a goal. Often it is to reduce economic growth to keep/make the country weak, or to achieve some other goal. See for example sactions on India, which are definitely not meant to overthrow the indian government.
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