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A New Internet Business Model?

blog.cloudflare.com

31–40 of 218 posts

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#31
> As we think about our role at Cloudflare in this developing market, it's not about protecting the status quo but instead helping catalyze a better business model for the future of Internet content creation. That means creating a level playing field. Ideally there should be lots of AI companies, large and small, and lots of content creators, large and small.

Not mentioned: there would be a single gatekeeper for the internet, Cloudflare.

The "level playing field" rhetoric reminds me so much of Apple talking about the App Store. This new internet business model is just the App Store, substituting websites for apps and Cloudflare for Apple. The system only works with some middleman between the AI companies and the content creators.

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#32
post #6

But what is this new business model, and how do we transition to it? There's so little actual detail there.

Cloudflare has controls already in their dashboard for controlling whether LLMs should be denied responses when querying your site. How they intend to broker payments and selective access isn’t really clear, but you can stop giving your content away for free if you’d like.

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#33
post #11
post #6

But what is this new business model, and how do we transition to it? There's so little actual detail there.

Yeah, I was waiting for "how are they going to shove AI into this?" and boom there it is halfway down the page. No content here (obvious problem: how does paying Reddit Inc to allow scraping result in money going to the person who created the content? shrug). Just more AI hype to get investor cash before the bubble bursts. Woopie. Edit: Re-read it and just noticed this: > assuming the AI companies are willing to step…

If Cloudflare demonstrates it can reliably distinguish AI scraper traffic from human traffic, then they will be able to force AI companies to step up, no assumption necessary. Still a big if, but (this one clause you quoted notwithstanding) it doesn't read to me like they're relying on the goodwill of AI companies.

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#34
post #16
post #6

But what is this new business model, and how do we transition to it? There's so little actual detail there.

Charge site owners to protect the site from aggressive crawlers, charge crawlers/agents to bypass the protection. Like a good old fashioned protection racket

That's not what protection racket means. Cloudflare isn't the one building LLMs and scraping websites.

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#35
Something that stuck out on this was the notion of the LLMs as models of human knowledge, and the notion that we could "see the gaps". There's been an interesting debate* in journalism over the concept of neutrality - what it means to "just present the facts," and whether that's actually a useful service, and what are actual facts, and how do you define a fact (it's gotten rather epistemological), and that's just for things that actually happened in the real world. I think what's not taken into account here is how much of the world is not able to be summarized into One Universal Truth - how much of what we look for is actually the preference of the author ("what are the best new albums this year?" "how do I cook chicken?"), or an intellectual synthesis of a subject (basically anything written by that acoup guy), or just some entertainment or random digression on a topic. I think this is part of the crux of the argument behind the artists vs LLMs debate (you know, aside from all the economic exploitation) - even the act of writing a summary is a creative act when performed by a human that generates something new, whereas an LLM is, as far as we can tell from both the mechanics and the actual output, a remix of existing content. I think our appetite for the latter is less than we think it is.

I don't fundamentally think that Cloudflare's view here is _wrong_ - by and large, when I google what internal temperature to cook pork to so I don't die, I'm not looking for an opinion or someone's life story - but I think I'm much more interested in how we create the weird niches that create the "knowledge" for the blender. Cloudflare alludes to it with the talk about Reddit and whatnot, but I'd love to know what the plan is to actually create and nurture those communities where people can really get weird into whatever topic they're interested in. Right now we're all sort of just ghettoized into various Facebook communities or whatever, but recreating an actual vibrant communal internet where people can find their weirdo subcultures and actually negotiate on some kind of reasonable footing with the LLM scrapers (who were the social network people, who were the search engine people, who have always been the ad people) would be a genuine improvement to the internet.

* read "hellish swamp diving affair"

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#36
> Make no mistake, the Internet has never been free. There's always been a reward system that transferred value from consumers to creators and, in doing so, filled the Internet with content. Had the Internet not had that reward system it wouldn't be nearly as vibrant as it is today.

This is an attempt to rewrite history. Back in the day, we stood up servers at our own expense and filled them with content for free, for nothing other than the fun of it. In fact, the "vibrancy" of the internet appears to be inversely correlated to the number of people using it to generate a profit.

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#38
post #14

I guess this is the 'meat' of the article. Interesting that they regard reddit as a 'niche' quirky corner of the internet. To me they are well over the peak of their enshittification journey with mainly bots and overzealous mods and pay-to-play accounts. Just like digg and others before something else will take their place soon enough as the place where enthusiasts share valuable content before businesses poke their…

I wonder if that’s a purposeful framing to avoid saying that content a large and diverse group of humans has created is very valuable. Think about how much money the Facebook data set would be worth to OpenAI. But cloudflare likely wants to avoid the privacy nightmare taking attention away from what they’re doing.

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#39

In short: we'll have the machines tell the creators what to create. > You could imagine an AI company suggesting back to creators that they need more created about topics they may not have enough content about. Say, for example, the carrying capacity of unladened swallows because they know their subscribers of a certain age and proclivity are always looking for answers about that topic. The very pruning algorithms th…

"The machines" in this scenario are being informed by what the humans are asking for though..

They're not just making it up..

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