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I Don't Want to Code with LLM's

blaines-blog.com

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Re: I Don't Want to Code with LLM's

#31

Post by logicprog »

xg15 wrote: post #15
Our_Benefactors wrote: post #2

I can’t take this article seriously, and neither should you. Being anti AI/anti LLM is solidly in the Luddite camp; there’s really no more debates to be had. Every serious inquiry shows productivity gains by using ai. It’s anyone’s prerogative to continue to advocate for the horse and buggy over the automobile, but most people won’t bother to take the discussion seriously.

You mean like the study that found a 20% productivity drop instead of gain?

It didn't really show that if you break down the data, and its methodology was pretty bad

https://www.fightforthehuman.com/are-developers-slowed-down-...

Re: I Don't Want to Code with LLM's

#32

Post by logicprog »

Refreeze5224 wrote: post #13
Our_Benefactors wrote: post #2

I can’t take this article seriously, and neither should you. Being anti AI/anti LLM is solidly in the Luddite camp; there’s really no more debates to be had. Every serious inquiry shows productivity gains by using ai. It’s anyone’s prerogative to continue to advocate for the horse and buggy over the automobile, but most people won’t bother to take the discussion seriously.

Then put me solidly in the Luddite camp. I think you should look into the history of the Luddites though. They were not against technology; they were against technology that destroyed jobs. AI is about destroying working-class jobs so that corporations and the owning class can profit. It's not about writing code or summarizing articles. Those are just things workers can do with it. That's not what it's actually for .…

> They were not against technology; they were against technology that destroyed jobs.

They were not against technology; they were against technology that their destroyed jobs. If we had followed what they wanted, we'd still be in a semi pre industrial artisnal economy, and the worse off for it.

Re: I Don't Want to Code with LLM's

#33

Post by anikom15 »

thomas_moon wrote: post #12

The only viewpoint I really agree with in this article is the "use it or lose it" mentality. Skills are developed and maintained by practicing them, but if all the author really wants to do is write code, then LLMs are literally an answer to their prayers! You can enable virtually free test driven development. Write the test names down and let the LLM implement them for you. You save 50% of your time and you get to g…

LLM’s can write documentation well, too.

Re: I Don't Want to Code with LLM's

#34

Post by psunavy03 »

Our_Benefactors wrote: post #11
lmf4lol wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

give me one seriously peer reviewed study please with proper controls i wait

Go ahead and move the goalposts now... This took about 2 minutes of research to support the conclusions I know to be true. You can waste time as long as you choose in academia attempting to prove any point, while normal people make real contributions using LLMs. ### An Empirical Evaluation of Using Large Language Models for Automated Unit Test Generation We evaluate TESTPILOT using OpenAI’s gpt3.5-turbo LLM on 25 npm…

If you are seriously linking "productivity" to "lines of code produced," that says all about your credibility that I need to know.

Re: I Don't Want to Code with LLM's

#35

Post by Our_Benefactors »

footy wrote: post #30
Our_Benefactors wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go ahead and move the goalposts now... This took about 2 minutes of research to support the conclusions I know to be true. You can waste time as long as you choose in academia attempting to prove any point, while normal people make real contributions using LLMs. ### An Empirical Evaluation of Using Large Language Models for Automated Unit Test Generation We evaluate TESTPILOT using OpenAI’s gpt3.5-turbo LLM on 25 npm…

> This took about 2 minutes of research to support the conclusions I know to be true This is a terrible way to do research!

The point is that the information is readily available, and rather than actually adding to the discussion they chose to crow “source?”. It’s very lame.

Re: I Don't Want to Code with LLM's

#36

Post by Our_Benefactors »

snickerbockers wrote: post #24
JohnFen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What data are you talking about? Why do you value it above the data showing the opposite?

It's superior data because it supports his expectations. His expectations are right because they are based on superior data. Checkmate Luddites.

Meanwhile, you have furnished zero data that supports your claims. Ho hum.

Re: I Don't Want to Code with LLM's

#37

Post by Our_Benefactors »

capyba wrote: post #27
Our_Benefactors wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go ahead and move the goalposts now... This took about 2 minutes of research to support the conclusions I know to be true. You can waste time as long as you choose in academia attempting to prove any point, while normal people make real contributions using LLMs. ### An Empirical Evaluation of Using Large Language Models for Automated Unit Test Generation We evaluate TESTPILOT using OpenAI’s gpt3.5-turbo LLM on 25 npm…

“ Productivity (measured by the number of lines of code produced) increased” The LLM’s better have written more code, they’re a text generation machine! In what world does this study prove that the LLM actually accomplished anything useful?

As expected, the goalposts are being moved.

LOC does have a correlation with productivity, as much as devs hate to acknowledge it. I don’t care that you can provide counterexamples to this, or even if the AI on average takes more LOC to accomplish the same task - it still results in more productivity overall because it arrives at the result faster.

Re: I Don't Want to Code with LLM's

#38

Post by Our_Benefactors »

psunavy03 wrote: post #34
Our_Benefactors wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go ahead and move the goalposts now... This took about 2 minutes of research to support the conclusions I know to be true. You can waste time as long as you choose in academia attempting to prove any point, while normal people make real contributions using LLMs. ### An Empirical Evaluation of Using Large Language Models for Automated Unit Test Generation We evaluate TESTPILOT using OpenAI’s gpt3.5-turbo LLM on 25 npm…

If you are seriously linking "productivity" to "lines of code produced," that says all about your credibility that I need to know.

Do you think LOC and program complexity are not correlated? You are arguing in bad faith.

Re: I Don't Want to Code with LLM's

#39

Post by bdangubic »

capyba wrote: post #25
elwebmaster wrote: post #22

“a new paradigm for software development that you must learn or be left behind” that’s a completely inaccurate statement. Nobody is saying that you will be “left behind”. It certainly is a new paradigm but it doesn’t mean the old way of doing things won’t continue to exist. Just like there are still some problems that require code to be written in C or even assembly. Just like there are hand-made goods. The size of t…

I disagree - a lot of people with positions of power are unfortunately saying the “will be left behind “ bit

not all of course as there’ll be morons always but a lot of people who are saying “will be left behind” see an amazing tool which in hands of the right people is a great multiplier…

Re: I Don't Want to Code with LLM's

#40

Post by thomas_moon »

footy wrote: post #28
thomas_moon wrote: post #12

The only viewpoint I really agree with in this article is the "use it or lose it" mentality. Skills are developed and maintained by practicing them, but if all the author really wants to do is write code, then LLMs are literally an answer to their prayers! You can enable virtually free test driven development. Write the test names down and let the LLM implement them for you. You save 50% of your time and you get to g…

all of this sounds awful

The whole point of my post is that you get to pick and choose what parts this magical software automates for you. Based on your response, it's an imagination issue for you.
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