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Rails Needs New Governance

davidcel.is

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Re: Rails Needs New Governance

#31

Post by jemmyw »

sarchertech wrote: post #21
baggy_trough wrote: post #6

You should be able to work with other people even if they aren't progressive (or right wing, or whatever). Braying "Nazi", "far-right extremist", etc. about pretty conventional mainstream opinions (probably the majority in the United States at this moment) just makes you sound unhinged.

Yeah most of the blog articles the author linked to were very mainstream views that they tried to make sound nefarious. The vast majority of them wouldn’t have been out of place coming from Democratic politicians. Trying to force the creator of Rails out because he is too centrist is insane.

We have to rub along with people who have different political views to our own and I strongly agree that people shouldn't be forced out for opinions held that have little to do with the organization in question.

However, I clicked two of those blog links and the second one, on "consent culture" has genuinely upset me a little. And I am personally in no way deviant from his ideal norm, nuclear family with 3 kids. But the underlying message about cultural force "guiding people to the good life" fuck that, that's taking away choice, who is to say what the good life is. And calling having kids divine joy: I love my kids but that phrasing gives me the chills.

I've only previously read business and tech stuff from dhh and then rarely. That does make me reassess him, I'll probably skip reading any commentary from him now.

Re: Rails Needs New Governance

#32

Post by tt_dev »

So what if he’s right leaning and assertive in his views. Still a good framework, still good direction.

I don’t follow why a difference in politics affects engineering quality.

Re: Rails Needs New Governance

#33

Post by themafia »

bastawhiz wrote: post #30
themafia wrote: post #22

I think invoking a programmers personal blog or points of view to make a point about project governance is wholly inappropriate. There is absolutely nothing in the way of technical analysis or suggestions and the post even ends admitting that the author doesn't believe there's a tractable way forward. What was the point of this? You don't personally like DHH? I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion but I don'…

That's a bold take. The post links to articles that show DHH's full throated hate for: - Trans people - Fat people - People who identify as neurodivergent And plenty more. Rails governance isn't about reviewing PRs, it's about managing people. And if you show outright disdain (if not hate) for many of those people, how is that affecting your ability to drive the project forward? How much harm are you inflicting on th…

> it's about managing people.

That's a big claim for a volunteer project.

> how is that affecting your ability to drive the project forward?

Then the article should have focused on this point. If there is data to be exposed then I'm interested. So far I've only seen catty allegations with nothing concrete to back them up.

> This isn't Brendan Eich quietly donating to the Prop 8 campaign

I similarly don't care. If you simply cannot contribute to a project because you cannot agree with every single decision of it's maintainer then I think you should evaluate your own emotions before attacking others.

> some alternative standard that imagines their role as a purely technical one.

When did this purported standard become recognized or defined? I'm continuing to see a lack of evidence for these claims.

Re: Rails Needs New Governance

#34

Post by yugellen »

bastawhiz wrote: post #30
themafia wrote: post #22

I think invoking a programmers personal blog or points of view to make a point about project governance is wholly inappropriate. There is absolutely nothing in the way of technical analysis or suggestions and the post even ends admitting that the author doesn't believe there's a tractable way forward. What was the point of this? You don't personally like DHH? I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion but I don'…

That's a bold take. The post links to articles that show DHH's full throated hate for: - Trans people - Fat people - People who identify as neurodivergent And plenty more. Rails governance isn't about reviewing PRs, it's about managing people. And if you show outright disdain (if not hate) for many of those people, how is that affecting your ability to drive the project forward? How much harm are you inflicting on th…

The post linked to articles on DHH's blog that shows he's an opinionated guy and had no qualms about expressing his views.

So what?

If you're upset with his takes, that's on you to manage your own emotions accordingly.

Re: Rails Needs New Governance

#35

Post by yugellen »

tt_dev wrote: post #32

So what if he’s right leaning and assertive in his views. Still a good framework, still good direction. I don’t follow why a difference in politics affects engineering quality.

People like the author are insufferable. Demanding milquetoastism from everyone they come into contact with. It's so tiresome.

Re: Rails Needs New Governance

#36

Post by jaredcwhite »

andrewmutz wrote: post #19

Rails would have become irrelevant long ago if it wasnt for DHH. Especially in recent years he has been doing an enormous amount of stuff to keep Rails relevant and still the top choice for rapidly building businesses with a small team. I don't agree with him on political matters but that is irrelevant. He's not my senator, he runs an open source project (and does it really well).

He doesn't run an open source project well when there's a substantial brain drain from the ecosystem due to his loudly-expressed worldview being deplorable.

This is like the fallacy of marketers who only measure slight short-term increases in engagement. It's not success if you get a temporary bump of 5% if you also end up pissing off a ton of people who will never come back. Eventually the whole thing craters.

Re: Rails Needs New Governance

#38

Post by jaredcwhite »

I talk to so many people on almost a daily basis now who are migrating out of Rails or have already done so. The brain drain problem is massive. DHH has grown a cult of personality that is actually shrinking the overall ecosystem. This is what happens with authoritarians. The "in-crowd" gets louder and louder—at the expense of a diminishing body politic due to increasing disenfranchisement.

I don't know if it's too late for Rails itself to be saved, but we need a robust Ruby ecosystem entirely removed from the RoR framework and we need it yesterday.

Re: Rails Needs New Governance

#39

Post by techblueberry »

I feel like the left has forgotten how to build. My recollection of the activism of the 60s and 70s was like hippies building new kinds of anti-consumerist governance structures, and it’s kind of crazy to talk about open source in terms of how much money it costs. Let’s go forth and build something!

Re: Rails Needs New Governance

#40

Post by bastawhiz »

yugellen wrote: post #34
bastawhiz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bold take. The post links to articles that show DHH's full throated hate for: - Trans people - Fat people - People who identify as neurodivergent And plenty more. Rails governance isn't about reviewing PRs, it's about managing people. And if you show outright disdain (if not hate) for many of those people, how is that affecting your ability to drive the project forward? How much harm are you inflicting on th…

The post linked to articles on DHH's blog that shows he's an opinionated guy and had no qualms about expressing his views. So what? If you're upset with his takes, that's on you to manage your own emotions accordingly.

Sure, I'll work on Django instead. That's not the point. Why would the Rails community not care that the guy they're keeping in charge is actively alienating people? Since when is there a shortage of people who would be great leaders
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