Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

allthingsd.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 52 posts

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#31

Post by josephlord »

azakai wrote: post #24
cooldeal wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chilling effect on Android forks is the same, while it is funny that the Open Handset Alliance doesn't seem to be really open. All the major phone OEMs are part of it, meaning that Android forks will have hardware and marketing support cut off from them. >If they want to use Android in any way they want, they can leave the OHA. And basically quit the handset market, as described in the GP post. Isn't that like sa…

> And basically quit the handset market There are non-OHA Android products that are successful: The Kindle and Nook, for example. Those happen to be tablets and not phones, but I don't see a fundamental reason for that. > Isn't that like saying if Compaq wanted to ship BeOS or dual boot machine, it could forgo getting the OEM incentives that Dell, HP etc. received from Microsoft? Almost, but not quite. First, Microso…

Whether Google is an absolute monopoly depends on how you define the market. It isn't a monopoly in the market for consumers to buy mobile phones BUT in the market for manufacturers to license mobile phone OSes it probably does have a monopoly position in the market.

WebOS, Boot to Gecko and even WinMo have fairly small proportion of the market even combined.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#32

Post by kumarm »

modeless wrote: post #12

"Aliyun App Store Confirmed To Be Distributing Pirated Android Apps" http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/09/15/aliyun-app-store-con...

Many of our apps are listed there.

As a policy we don't submit our apps in any store other than Google Play Store for android as we believe in having one Android platform is beneficial for community (Including Amazon Store).

Take down notice? Where to send it? So Hire a lawyer in China to fight them? How long will that battle go on and are we too naive to assume we can fight Alibaba and win in China under their law?

I am glad Andy picked this fight.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#33

Post by orangecat »

taligent wrote: post #27
sabret00the wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Aliyun doesn't simply fork Android and run it's own App Store (as Amazon). It instead tries to rewrite bits, use some bits and create a Frankenstein type monster. Again, that's no real issue. However the real issue is that it's claiming to be Android Compatible, which means it's attempting to market itself off of Android's back. Add that with the fact they've stolen apps and apps written for Aliyu…

You know it's funny but what you wrote sounds exactly like what Google did with Java.

And Google isn't trying to sue Aliyun out of existence, nor forcibly prevent Acer from shipping Aliyun devices.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#34

Post by josephlord »

voidr wrote: post #28
josephlord wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like what Oracle wanted Google to do with Java/Dalvik/Android. Can you explain why you think this is different or if you thought Oracle should have got their way?

The difference is that you are free to use the Android CTS, unlike the Java TCK, which had a Field Of Use restriction that did not allow using it for mobile. The big difference is that you can do whatever you want with Android and it's components, but don't expect any help, from the OHA if you are making something incompatible.

Does that really help? Sun offered a different platform for mobile which Android is a massive deviation from. J2ME was rubbish but does that change their rights.

Is the defence of this action that Google aren't quite as unreasonable as Oracle? Is that the standard we hold "don't be evil" to?

The legal tool being used is different but it definitely seems anti-competitive.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#35

Post by mun2mun »

Google is threatening Acer to not make phone based on Aliyun OS while Haier Group who is another member of OHA have already shiped an Aliyun OS phone[1]. No question of "fragmentation" were asked back then. Hypocrisy at its best.

[1] http://www.generalatlantic.com/en/news/article/1838

Edit: See http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html for list of OHA members.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#36

Post by magicalist »

josephlord wrote: post #34
voidr wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that you are free to use the Android CTS, unlike the Java TCK, which had a Field Of Use restriction that did not allow using it for mobile. The big difference is that you can do whatever you want with Android and it's components, but don't expect any help, from the OHA if you are making something incompatible.

Does that really help? Sun offered a different platform for mobile which Android is a massive deviation from. J2ME was rubbish but does that change their rights. Is the defence of this action that Google aren't quite as unreasonable as Oracle? Is that the standard we hold "don't be evil" to? The legal tool being used is different but it definitely seems anti-competitive.

It means you aren't beholden at all to Google to be an "Android compatible" device, you just need to pass the freely available compatibility test.

Ask the Apache Harmony guys if that's only slightly less unreasonable than Sun/Oracle.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#37

Post by kumarm »

josephlord wrote: post #11
option_greek wrote: post #4

Here is a statement of Andy Rubin on this: https://plus.google.com/112599748506977857728/posts/hRcCi5xg... Apparently, they even have pirated google apps. How Alibaba/Acer claim moral high ground on this is beyond me.

So take action against the pirates. Don't bully your partners away from competing platforms.

[So take action against the pirates.] You are expecting to after a Chinese Pirates in China and win?

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#38

Post by donniezazen »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #5

Andy Rubin: >So there’s really no disputing that Aliyun is based on the Android platform and takes advantage of all the hard work that’s gone into that platform by the OHA. >So if you want to benefit from the Android ecosystem, then make the choice to be compatible. Its easy, free, and we’ll even help you out. But if you don’t want to be compatible, then don’t expect help from OHA members that are all working to supp…

Google is doing business. I has done great so far when it comes to promoting an open platform. You can't expect them to be altruistic.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#39

Post by josephlord »

kumarm wrote: post #37
josephlord wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So take action against the pirates. Don't bully your partners away from competing platforms.

[So take action against the pirates.] You are expecting to after a Chinese Pirates in China and win?

If you have emailed Aliyun and asked them to take it off then absolutely they are doing wrong leaving it on there. I haven't seen any information about what needs to be done to submit apps or if there is any review process (which should at least have caught the obvious Google apps).

If they don't remove it fairly promptly then yes maybe Google can take some action. I would expect that with clear cases of copyright infringement that Google at least could take a case.

In the mean time update your app to detect when it is running on Aliyun and include a half screen promotion for China's leading real Android phone.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#40

Post by felipeko »

josephlord wrote: post #16
voidr wrote: post #13

I think Google's position is reasonable: either Alibaba make Aliyun OS pass the Android compatibility tests, or remove the Android app runtime.

Sounds like what Oracle wanted Google to do with Java/Dalvik/Android. Can you explain why you think this is different or if you thought Oracle should have got their way?

Google is using Java language and its API, not JVM or its libs. Google never called Android a Java compatible or Java. Google has written all of its libs and the Dalvik VM.

Now look at this story, it's a company claiming to be Android compatible and using Android runtimes. All they did was a fork and customization of Android. Not there's anything wrong with that, but if you are a member of OHA you agree not to do it.

So there you go:

Google never agreed to anything, Acer did.

Google wrote code and used non-copyrightable part of Java, Alibaba did not (but they still didn't do anything wrong).

Google got sued, Acer/Alibaba did not.

Post reply on HN