I admire their solution to the modulo fair randomness issue is just "re-rolling" the out of scope (7,8,9, or 0) values.
Flipper Zero Geiger Counter
31–40 of 86 posts
Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
but how many amps though?
How many is safe? I don't mean that facetiously - do you have a good understanding of a safe power limit on a source at hundreds of volts?
Yes. Someone else already did the hard work for us on that. GFCIs commonly trip at 5mA. Pretty hard to really hurt yourself below that.
Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter
#33I know that footguns are broadly "on-brand" for the flipper zero ecosystem, but exposing high-voltage leads like that without any warning whatsoever seems a bit much .
High voltage means nothing if the power source can't deliver the current. You could use a transformer to step up a AAA battery to a billion volts and it wouldn't do anything because a battery can't actually push out 1B/[your body's resistance] amps.
With low voltage battery circuits the main thing you have to be wary of is capacitors because those can push out a lot more current than the battery itself. Usually you can judge how much a capacitor would hurt if you touched it based on its size. If you have a device with 20 batteries charging a baseball sized capacitor, be very cautious (like the DIY gauss guns/rail guns you see on youtube). Even a thimble sized capacitor will jolt you surprisingly hard. One time I touched the charged capacitor of a disposable camera and the discharge gave me quite the zing.
Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter
#34I bought a few Geiger tubes about 10 years ago. The larger one is more sensitive, but doesn't detect beta radiation. The smaller one does alpha/beta/gamma, but it's less sensitive. When you buy the tubes, you don't get the benefit of a calibrated measurement device, so I also bought a few Cesium 137 calibration sources. (No idea what sort of government watch lists I ended up on after placing that order.)
Next, I built a simple Geiger counter based upon a Raspberry Pi (Model B) and a Piface LCD display. I wanted to increase dynamic range of the measurements, so I did some circuit modifications to recharge the Geiger tube faster after an event. This allowed for higher counts, but consumes more power and lowers sensitivity. Also, getting the Pi to interrupt on each event for efficient counting has its limitations. A separate digital counter that is reset upon each read sample is better.
Anyway, it's a rabbit hole that ended up taking a lot more time and effort than I expected, but I was happy with the results.
Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter
#35Cool project! My business is Better Geiger (www.bettergeiger.com), I design and sell radiation detectors. I just hope people keep in mind the capabilities and limitations of those simple Geiger tubes. Radon was mentioned on the project website, yes technically radon decay products are detectable but pracfically a Geiger tube is reacting only to terrestrial, cosmic, and other sources of radiation, not anything to do with radon. Measuring radon generally requires a dedicated device (I recommend ecosense, at least until I get around to designing one). You correctly noted that such a tube can't accurately measure dose, that's because it is not energy compensated, so usually such a tube has a count to dose conversion factor for Cs-137 that will cause major overestimation in realistic scenarios. Those cheap tubes of that type also saturates easily in radiation fields that are really hazardous, making it fairly useless in an emergency situation. That is the main distinguishing feature of my products, high range and energy compensated. I have put out some YouTube videos that go into more detail about radiation dose, fallout and how to reduce risks, etc. I've given a lot of thought to doing a project like this with a scintillator, but I don't think the demand is there for me to do it before a lot of other ideas I have... When a cheapo standalone Geiger tube device can be had for $50, my products with scintillator go for $150 or $200 for the very high sensitivity version, then for $250-600 there are a few gamma spec products like radiacode, raysid, and radview with varying other features that are fun for hobbyists (though be aware none of those go to high dose rate range). For hackability mine offers access to the digital and analog outputs, but it's not really made for gamma spec so the spectrum quality is poor, but it can be a fun way to play. I've given a lot of thought to something designed more for DIY people, but in my experience very few people actually want that, most just want plug and play, and the ones that do request it usually don't even follow through. I've only communicated with a couple people that actually pulled a spec from a better geiger. Maybe that would be different if I designed a device specifically for DIY, something really small with simple serial comm output or something like that... Maybe some day.
Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter
#36When I was playing with arduino geiger counter, apart from of course breaking the tube, I struggled with counting the results.
On one hand it's trivial - counts (ticks) per second. However, this (of course!) can be very spiky. I ended up using pretty simple EWMA to smooth the results for user interaction. Anything really works, short decay is fine.
Then the really fun bit, was trying it with more serious radiation source, and guess what.... interrupt per tick, is... really bad! I was easily able to overwhelm the arduino, too many interrupts. Fun project to understand interrupt masking.
Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter
#37This reminded me about a wtf moment back in 2008. New York City tried to make it illegal (misdemeanor) to posses a geiger counter without a license. Obviously, it never became law.
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/locked_fire_b...
Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter
#38Cool project! My business is Better Geiger (www.bettergeiger.com), I design and sell radiation detectors. I just hope people keep in mind the capabilities and limitations of those simple Geiger tubes. Radon was mentioned on the project website, yes technically radon decay products are detectable but pracfically a Geiger tube is reacting only to terrestrial, cosmic, and other sources of radiation, not anything to do w…
Read above now and twice on Sunday.
I love the idea of using the tube and measurements as a random number generator! However, please treat the whole category of homemade devices to measure/detect "bad shit" as novelty and nothing else. If you are actually concerned enough to really measure/detect harmful materials, buy the proper devices. Learn how to calibrate and how to use them properly. The last thing our 911 system needs are people calling with aliexpress radiation detectors going off in a cancer center.
Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter
#39Do a search for "MightyOhm Geiger Counter Kit Bundle" and you will find a stand alone version of the same circuit along with photos. Although the PCB has a "High Voltage" label, it is powered by 2 X AAA batteries which are might be very lethal if ingested.\s
Powered by 2x AAA batteries != not high voltage. Boost converters can reach high voltages pretty easily. That's why you can get USB powered nixie clocks, for example.
Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter
#40This project is neat and OP did a good job, but I think the interest in Geiger counters among hackers needs an update. The Geiger kit on Adafruit (Yes, I know that makes the cost a lot higher to be from them instead of Ali, but I think is a good baseline for "finished good" price) is $99. Meanwhile, Raysid or Radiacode let you do full on gamma spectrometry, for about 2.5x the price. And, like, yeah, 2.5x the price. I…
> Like, you might have a use where you ONLY need a cheap display card, but there's a reason LTT calls the 1030 eWaste from the factory. Similarly, you might get enough out of the Geiger or it might do something the Radiacode doesn't for you but for most hobbyist, I doubt it.
I think the biggest difference here is that GPUs are fairly general-purpose devices. Even if you only need one as a cheapest possible way to output something to your monitor, it's easy to imagine how that might change and why you might as well future-proof your setup.
The other thing you didn't mention about why a 1030 is manufactured e-waste is in large part the competition from the used market. You can get equivalent functionality for a few dozen dollars, so buying a brand new 1030 as an individual makes no sense. This isn't a problem in the specialty radiation device market.
The thing is that most people probably don't buy Geiger counter modules or devices because of a burning need to do some specific tasks, like you would with GPUs. I'll bet that most people buying the Adafruit kit are getting it as a novelty, or for educational purposes, or to just have something reporting the background radiation around them out of curiosity. Because of this, price is the most important factor for these groups.
I've never heard of Radiacode, and looking it up, it seems seriously impressive - especially the portable gamma spectrometry that you mentioned. But I also know that it's a very niche device, and most people who would shell out $250+ for this need it for chemistry projects, exploring irradiated areas, evaluating radioactive items and so on. It's not a lot of people, considering that if you just want something to give you a readout, you'll get the <$99 product, and if you need it occupationally, you'll already have received a professional device.