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US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

reuters.com

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Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#31

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

tootie wrote: post #10
techpineapple wrote: post #2

I would say this is good to see on principle, but I assume which businesses they target will be decided through corruption and not data.

That presumes that this kind of enforcement is a net positive and I'm pretty convinced it isn't. The distinction between legal and illegal immigration is essentially arbitrary. Illegal immigration is not a crime of morality, it's basically one of economics. The legal framework theoretically is designed to produce an optimal outcome for the health and wealth of the nation and presently it is not doing that at all. We…

Most lines are. It is a line we agreed on as a society. Just for a quick comparison, 21 is a legal drinking age in US ( going after less incendiary example just to prove a point ). But, and here is my subtle point, either those are real lines or there are not. If they are real, they should be enforced and if they are not, they should be nulled.

Before I offer a reflexive response, I think it is worth to task a simple question:

why?

That is amusingly neat way oh framing it, but if it only it was that simple. I want to argue against this framework, but not before you give me an idea about how you justify the why in previous section. I struggle to understand this particular perspective.

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#32

Post by hamdingers »

sugarpimpdorsey wrote: post #18
JKCalhoun wrote: post #11

Curious to see what comes home to roost. I mean when, for example, you clear out the agriculture workers of the U.S. without any thought as to how or what you are going to do to replace them, well, expect higher grocery prices I guess?

> I mean when, for example, you clear out the agriculture workers of the U.S. without any thought as to how or what you are going to do to replace them, well, expect higher grocery prices I guess Most ag workers are here on... ag work visas. There are processes in place to facilitate this seasonal work. "No more strawberries/lettuce/etc when you kick out all the illegals!" has been a rallying cry on lefty social medi…

> "No more strawberries/lettuce/etc when you kick out all the illegals!" has been a rallying cry on lefty social media for the last few years and it... hasn't happened?

Why would it have happened? "All the illegals" have not been kicked out, so what are you basing this statement on?

Bad faith framing.

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#33

Post by busterarm »

shrubble wrote: post #19
JKCalhoun wrote: post #11

Curious to see what comes home to roost. I mean when, for example, you clear out the agriculture workers of the U.S. without any thought as to how or what you are going to do to replace them, well, expect higher grocery prices I guess?

This argument (which I’ve heard many times before) is easily refuted by looking at YouTube videos for “commercial xxx harvesting” where xxx is the vegetable or fruit in question. For instance the carrot harvester that can harvest tons of carrots each hour: you could pay the driver $126k per year and the carrot price per pound would not even move 2 pennies at retail.

Not everything can be harvested with big machines. Pretty much all tree fruits, asparagus, peppers, etc are harvested by hand. If you want blueberries or strawberries that look nice enough to be sold to consumers whole, those are hand-harvested every time.

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#34

Post by hilsdev »

whatshisface wrote: post #27
hilsdev wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an American citizen had gotten the same job, they would be paying the same taxes

No, they would be paying lower net taxes. US citizens are eligible for government services.

Where I live, even the undeniably "illegal" are eligible for government services

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#35

Post by ben_w »

exabrial wrote: post #17
JKCalhoun wrote: post #11

Curious to see what comes home to roost. I mean when, for example, you clear out the agriculture workers of the U.S. without any thought as to how or what you are going to do to replace them, well, expect higher grocery prices I guess?

It's probably not your intention, but I greatly dislike this argument, as it's similar ones were made to justify previous inhumane practices that were legal before the conclusion of the US Civil war. If manual labor is required for agriculture, let the market absorb the real cost and pay the workers the correct wage instead of exploiting them.

Comparative advantage.

Consider this vague hypothetical, because I'm not American and don't care about the specifics:

Country A, average wage X; country B, minimum wage for legal residents 2X. People from A can on average get a pay rise by working in B while undercutting legal residents of B. Citizens of B then get the stuff cheaper than they otherwise would have, but also might not be as easy to employ.

Are current employment stats accurate? As in do they tell the right picture or is this a case of "lies, damn lies, and statistics"? Lots of people say it's the later, and unfortunately I'm not qualified to explore anyone's arguments.

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#36

Post by sillywalk »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #11

Curious to see what comes home to roost. I mean when, for example, you clear out the agriculture workers of the U.S. without any thought as to how or what you are going to do to replace them, well, expect higher grocery prices I guess?

The US Secretary of Agriculture suggested Medicaid recipients and automation. I doubt that'll work.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/09/trump-agricu...

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#37

Post by jandrese »

jibe wrote: post #7
jleyank wrote: post #3

If they really want to address illegals they should penalize the companies that use them rather than individual workers. Hell, they might be working with companies to stage deport theatre and then looking away when they restock. Like they argue with drugs, remove the demand and the problem will decrease.

"US to target more businesses" - they are!

To be clear those business won’t be punished except for having to find more workers.

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#38

Post by ivan_gammel »

sugarpimpdorsey wrote: post #18
JKCalhoun wrote: post #11

Curious to see what comes home to roost. I mean when, for example, you clear out the agriculture workers of the U.S. without any thought as to how or what you are going to do to replace them, well, expect higher grocery prices I guess?

> I mean when, for example, you clear out the agriculture workers of the U.S. without any thought as to how or what you are going to do to replace them, well, expect higher grocery prices I guess Most ag workers are here on... ag work visas. There are processes in place to facilitate this seasonal work. "No more strawberries/lettuce/etc when you kick out all the illegals!" has been a rallying cry on lefty social medi…

If I understand the case with Hyundai correctly, the problem is not that people work without proper visas, but the interpretation of visa terms by ICE, which means that if they are to meet deportation KPIs, this may impact those who are working legally. The only racist angle to that will be if ICE is using racial profiling to pick the targets (for non-American it’s actually quite uncomfortable to see racism popping out of nowhere in many conversations, just like in your comment; we know that the unscientific and harmful concept of race is somehow important to Americans, but why are you always paying so much attention to it?). Why the only? Because ag workers in many countries are foreigners on ag visas, it is common, it is about cheap labor, labor code violations and sometimes human trafficking, and it has nothing to do with race, just with economic situation in workforce donor countries.

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#39

Post by FirmwareBurner »

neither_color wrote: post #23

One thing missing from the public debate and I havent seen any writers I follow bring up: When US companies first started outsourcing their factories to Korea, China, and other countries, they were doing the exact same thing. They were just flying engineers over on business and tourist visas to jump start factories and train the workers. Typically only long term workers bothered getting bona fide employee visas abroa…

[flagged]

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#40

Post by crooked-v »

shrubble wrote: post #19
JKCalhoun wrote: post #11

Curious to see what comes home to roost. I mean when, for example, you clear out the agriculture workers of the U.S. without any thought as to how or what you are going to do to replace them, well, expect higher grocery prices I guess?

This argument (which I’ve heard many times before) is easily refuted by looking at YouTube videos for “commercial xxx harvesting” where xxx is the vegetable or fruit in question. For instance the carrot harvester that can harvest tons of carrots each hour: you could pay the driver $126k per year and the carrot price per pound would not even move 2 pennies at retail.

There's plenty of food that can't be harvested by machine yet, and probably won't be anytime in the near future.
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