31–39 of 39 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's also incredibly detailed for a report on an event that happened 3 days ago
Just what I was thinking! Normally these things take months...
Have to read it with time, however as Portuguese I imagine the service done during the same day of the tragedy was as always in our culture, "good enough" and to move on. Likewise having all offers turned down for service, in some other cultures, they would rather shut down the funicular than keep it running without such contracts in place. Now several people are dead. As usual, "casa roubada, trancas às portas"
> Have to read it with time, however as Portuguese I imagine the service done during the same day of the tragedy was as always in our culture, "good enough" and to move on. Coming from the same country as you, I totally understand. However, in this particular case the maintenance seems to have been done as it was supposed to be. The problem seems to be that the cable broke at the anchoring point underneath the cabin,…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> it is known they would never be enough. No that's not what it says. Brakes were not enough "in the current configuration" in other words they were not applied fully. The investigation will focus on why brakes were not applying full breaking force. In railway jargon "brake configuration" refers to "how much are you braking" but you seem to have interpreted "braking configuration" as "the number and type of brakes th…
The evidence indicates that the air brake and the manual brake were quickly applied by the brakeman of cab #1, but that in the current configuration, the brakes do not have sufficient capacity to stop the cabins in motion without their empty masses being mutually balanced by the connecting cable. There- fore, the existing brakes does not constitute a redundant system in case of a failure in the connecting cable. So t…
Hearing some local experts, they often mention that this is physically not enough to stop a 14 ton vehicle (plus passengers) going downhill when the slope is as high as 18%. So basically even if in perfectly working condition, the bake pads or wheels would just slide down the tracks as there's not enough friction for the resulting force.
Maybe something like a rack and pinion railway or some other kind of drastic metal locking mechanism are the only realistic way to prevent catastrophic events when the cable breaks/detaches, considering the masses and slopes involved here?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Have to read it with time, however as Portuguese I imagine the service done during the same day of the tragedy was as always in our culture, "good enough" and to move on. Coming from the same country as you, I totally understand. However, in this particular case the maintenance seems to have been done as it was supposed to be. The problem seems to be that the cable broke at the anchoring point underneath the cabin,…
Thanks for the overview, living abroad I don't follow all details, as close as I would being there.
Most people here have exactly the same view you expressed. My initial reaction was the same as well. Then, on top of it all there's the political noise where each party is now trying to take some advantage out of the situation, which isn't pretty. Besides, we both know well how things usually happen here, so it's only human to think there was some kind of gross mistake. I want to believe it wasn't the case this time, but who knows... We will have to wait and see.
Summary: the wrecked cabin had started its descent from the top station, only got a few seconds down before the steel cable pulled out of its socket; the cabin went into freefall down the tracks; the staff activated all the brakes available, but they were clearly not designed for this situation and could not provide enough stopping force before it derailed and hit a wall and a lamp-post at approx 60km/h.
Wow, only 60km/h. If it was a modern bus hitting a building at that speed, most occupants would be able to walk out. Really puts into perspective how much safety improved in the past 100 years.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, the brakes would have never worked if connecting cables broke? And this specific failure has just never happened before? Jesus.
No that's not what it's saying. I've read the whole report. The hydraulic brakes are designed to be applied automatically and stop the car in case of cable failure. By mentioning "current configuration" the report is implying that the brakes were not applied fully, and the reason for this is still being investigated
> At this time, it has not yet been possible to conduct verification checks to confirm whether the system for automatically applying the pneumatic brake to the cabins following a loss of cable tension in the trambolho worked.
The cable breaking (or in this case, going loose at its attachment point) should be the detected at the flywheel area at the top, and result in power being cut to both cabins — this happened. This should result in pneumatic brakes being applied at the maximum force — it's unknown whether this worked.
> However, regardless of this, the evidence indicates that the air brake and the manual brake were quickly applied by the brakeman of cab #1, but that in the current configuration, the brakes do not have sufficient capacity to stop the cabins in motion without their empty masses being mutually balanced by the connecting cable. Therefore, the existing brakes does not constitute a redundant system in case of a failure in the connecting cable.
Irrespective of the automatic system, the brakeman immediately applied the air brake and manual brake. Then: in this configuration the brakes are not sufficient and are not a redundant system.
One possible interpretation is that the brakes when manually applied are insufficient to stop the vehicle when the counterweight provided by the cable is absent.
Another is that the manual brake is insufficient, but the pneumatic/air (assuming those are the same) brake should be at maximum force, but for some reason, it wasn't applied at maximum force by either the brakeman or the automatic system.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
No that's not what it's saying. I've read the whole report. The hydraulic brakes are designed to be applied automatically and stop the car in case of cable failure. By mentioning "current configuration" the report is implying that the brakes were not applied fully, and the reason for this is still being investigated
> The evidence confirms that the emergency system installed in the flywheel located at the top of Calçada da Glória, tripping the power switch to the cabins in the event of a loss of cable tension, worked as intended, which would result in the immediate and automatic application of the pneumatic brake in each cabin. > At this time, it has not yet been possible to conduct verification checks to confirm whether the sys…
> Another is that the manual brake is insufficient, but the pneumatic/air (assuming those are the same) brake should be at maximum force, but for some reason, it wasn't applied at maximum force by either the brakeman or the automatic system.
Agree and I would add a third possibility:
The delay between detection and automatic full brake application, or by the cabin driver was long enough to allow enough speed/inertia to build, beyond the threshold until which the brakes would actually make it stop.
Totally unrelated but there’s a Portuguese language Cold War miniseries on Netflix called Gloria that is excellent (set in Gloria city). I just happened to start to watch that this week
Watched it front to back in Portuguese a while ago. It is one of the few series available in European Portuguese, most are Brazilian. I'd say it was time well spent, it is an entertaining and capturing thriller and you learn a bit about a certain era of Portuguese history. What annoyed me a bit was that it had many small period inconsistencies. Little things like modern buildings, modern cars visible in the backgroun…
That’s why turn of the tide came as quite a shock in quality compared to the rest of the shows - Netflix actually put a relatively high budget into the show, which just allows them to dedicate so much more time to these little things.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The evidence indicates that the air brake and the manual brake were quickly applied by the brakeman of cab #1, but that in the current configuration, the brakes do not have sufficient capacity to stop the cabins in motion without their empty masses being mutually balanced by the connecting cable. There- fore, the existing brakes does not constitute a redundant system in case of a failure in the connecting cable. So t…
It's my understanding that this particular funicular system uses eight shoe brakes, where rubber pads basically clamp a metal track (from above and below) causing friction. Hearing some local experts, they often mention that this is physically not enough to stop a 14 ton vehicle (plus passengers) going downhill when the slope is as high as 18%. So basically even if in perfectly working condition, the bake pads or whe…
one needs just more pad area and more clamp force