Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Canada designs new visa for immigrant entrepreneurs

theglobeandmail.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 45 posts

Re: Canada designs new visa for immigrant entrepreneurs

#31

Post by ido »

anovikov wrote: post #26
refurb wrote: post #2

"...and intends to initiate a visa that would be issued to people identified by venture capital funds as candidates to create startup firms in Canada." Anyone else find this to be an odd way to go about it? VC firms have distinctly different goals when funding companies than the people actually running the company. I guess it raises some questions for me: (1) Is there a floor to how much funding is required? For lack…

I guess the whole point for the government is to make more jobs for locals. So i doubt they will easily allow bringing more people than the founders, and of course floor of funding will be required. Don't forget the government has its own interests, in addition to founders and VCs. Government should be very careful to not create a loophole for de facto illegal immigration, so limiting funding to some set of establish…

    To me, this is natural and positive. 
    Good countries are like good clubs, 
    they are good only as long as they 
    are hard to get into. Lift the barriers 
    and there will be no place in the world 
    you'd wish to go on a vacation.
Why is that? I find a lot of anti-immigration feelings stem from the incorrect belief that jobs are like a natural resource that can run out. I say, as long as someone's not a criminal or has some unfortunate lethal transmittable disease let everyone that wants to immigrate do so.

Moving across the world to a different country, leaving everyone and everything you know to start in a foreign culture and language is a pain in the butt. The people who are so driven and motivated they're willing to endure that in order to find work are the kind of people you'd want in your country.

Re: Canada designs new visa for immigrant entrepreneurs

#32

Post by anovikov »

ido wrote: post #31
anovikov wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the whole point for the government is to make more jobs for locals. So i doubt they will easily allow bringing more people than the founders, and of course floor of funding will be required. Don't forget the government has its own interests, in addition to founders and VCs. Government should be very careful to not create a loophole for de facto illegal immigration, so limiting funding to some set of establish…

To me, this is natural and positive. Good countries are like good clubs, they are good only as long as they are hard to get into. Lift the barriers and there will be no place in the world you'd wish to go on a vacation. Why is that? I find a lot of anti-immigration feelings stem from the incorrect belief that jobs are like a natural resource that can run out. I say, as long as someone's not a criminal or has some unf…

It's not about jobs (to me), just about quality of life, which means educational and cultural level of people around (plus weather, which is harder to fix) - these 2 things are enough to fix everything else around with time.

I'd like to meet people who don't qualify for the now-present Canada's immigration barriers (quite mild point-based one, which essentially means having decent English, higher education, and some work experience), as little as possible.

Sure startup founders (even if their startups - real ones - will fail) are a very positive addition to any society. But people who could use loopholes in law to get in pretending to be founders are mostly not.

Re: Canada designs new visa for immigrant entrepreneurs

#33

Post by ido »

anovikov wrote: post #32
ido wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, this is natural and positive. Good countries are like good clubs, they are good only as long as they are hard to get into. Lift the barriers and there will be no place in the world you'd wish to go on a vacation. Why is that? I find a lot of anti-immigration feelings stem from the incorrect belief that jobs are like a natural resource that can run out. I say, as long as someone's not a criminal or has some unf…

It's not about jobs (to me), just about quality of life, which means educational and cultural level of people around (plus weather, which is harder to fix) - these 2 things are enough to fix everything else around with time. I'd like to meet people who don't qualify for the now-present Canada's immigration barriers (quite mild point-based one, which essentially means having decent English, higher education, and some…

You don't have to be their friends, it is beneficial to the receiving country to have hard working people willing to go to great lengths to improve their lot in life.

Re: Canada designs new visa for immigrant entrepreneurs

#34

Post by anovikov »

ido wrote: post #31
anovikov wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the whole point for the government is to make more jobs for locals. So i doubt they will easily allow bringing more people than the founders, and of course floor of funding will be required. Don't forget the government has its own interests, in addition to founders and VCs. Government should be very careful to not create a loophole for de facto illegal immigration, so limiting funding to some set of establish…

To me, this is natural and positive. Good countries are like good clubs, they are good only as long as they are hard to get into. Lift the barriers and there will be no place in the world you'd wish to go on a vacation. Why is that? I find a lot of anti-immigration feelings stem from the incorrect belief that jobs are like a natural resource that can run out. I say, as long as someone's not a criminal or has some unf…

Try thinking of it that way: there are many Russians in the Silicon Valley, they are smart people, a significant part of its success story, definitely make a great positive contribution to the ecosystem.

Now imagine that U.S. allowed any Russian in. Getting my idea now?

So immigration is a good (maybe even necessary) thing for a nation to be successful. But just careful, selective immigration. In every country, by definition, average people are born on average. You don't want them, every country already has enough of it's own home-born mediocrity.

Re: Canada designs new visa for immigrant entrepreneurs

#35

Post by ido »

anovikov wrote: post #34
ido wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, this is natural and positive. Good countries are like good clubs, they are good only as long as they are hard to get into. Lift the barriers and there will be no place in the world you'd wish to go on a vacation. Why is that? I find a lot of anti-immigration feelings stem from the incorrect belief that jobs are like a natural resource that can run out. I say, as long as someone's not a criminal or has some unf…

Try thinking of it that way: there are many Russians in the Silicon Valley, they are smart people, a significant part of its success story, definitely make a great positive contribution to the ecosystem. Now imagine that U.S. allowed any Russian in. Getting my idea now? So immigration is a good (maybe even necessary) thing for a nation to be successful. But just careful, selective immigration. In every country, by de…

I'm not American myself but I'd have no problem letting every Russian who doesn't have a criminal record (and are able bodied etc..) immigrate to my country[1][2].

The fact that they're willing to pack up and move to a foreign country half way across the globe for the chance of finding work means they are already above average in their ambition & work-ethic.

[1] ideally every country would implement freedom of immigration like that, so they don't all end up in 1 place.

[2] incidentally I'm Israeli, and Israel has tons of immigrants from the former Soviet Union (over a million out of a total population of 7 million).

Re: Canada designs new visa for immigrant entrepreneurs

#36

Post by anovikov »

ido wrote: post #35
anovikov wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try thinking of it that way: there are many Russians in the Silicon Valley, they are smart people, a significant part of its success story, definitely make a great positive contribution to the ecosystem. Now imagine that U.S. allowed any Russian in. Getting my idea now? So immigration is a good (maybe even necessary) thing for a nation to be successful. But just careful, selective immigration. In every country, by de…

I'm not American myself but I'd have no problem letting every Russian who doesn't have a criminal record (and are able bodied etc..) immigrate to my country[1][2]. The fact that they're willing to pack up and move to a foreign country half way across the globe for the chance of finding work means they are already above average in their ambition & work-ethic. [1] ideally every country would implement freedom of immigr…

Why don't you think they will direct most of their talent in squeezing as much public funds as possible, working inofficially in criminal or semi-criminal activities. That's what people in Russia do without immigrating anywhere, and those able to immigrate will be probably more talented in this regard.

Re: Canada designs new visa for immigrant entrepreneurs

#37

Post by untog »

verelo wrote: post #25

As an immigrant and entrepreneur in Canada, I'm less than impressed by this new visa class. This visa means you can work for your own company, in Canada, provided it has funding from a VC. Lets reword that a bit and it sounds like "You can work for a specific company, in Canada, provided you have an offer letter" Honestly if Canada wants to do something truly innovative, they should look at the track record of applic…

Honestly if Canada wants to do something truly innovative, they should look at the track record of applicants rather than simply saying "get a VC to sponsor you". Things like: have they received funding previously, do they have relevant experience, have they got any revenue or "traction" on their current idea, how have they validated their current idea and whats the chance of it getting funding...are all great places to start.

But... isn't that exactly what a VC would do? While I absolutely do understand the frustration with VCs being the gatekeepers for this, it's much more preferable to the government holding the keys. They would be useless at assessing "idea traction" for example, and I'm glad they know enough to not try.

As someone in the US on an H1B visa who left Canada because of visa restrictions, this does look very interesting- even if it's just a starting point. I just got back from a weekend in Vancouver- I'd forgotten how much I love that city.

Re: Canada designs new visa for immigrant entrepreneurs

#38

Post by untog »

patdryburgh wrote: post #30

My boss was involved in preparing the draft proposal that this bill is based on. He has over a decade of experience on both sides of the VC/start up fence. His experience bringing the team that created Summify to Canada from Romania was a catalyst for this bill. Like all things, it is not perfect, but it is a step in the right direction.

Agreed. As someone who was pushed out of Canada because of visa restrictions back in 2008 (and has been living in NYC since), I'm glad to finally see some steps being made here. By coincidence I just got back from a weekend back in Vancouver and had forgotten how much I miss the place- but as someone more tech-oriented, I'm still working out how this could play to my advantage.

Re: Canada designs new visa for immigrant entrepreneurs

#39

Post by ido »

anovikov wrote: post #36
ido wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not American myself but I'd have no problem letting every Russian who doesn't have a criminal record (and are able bodied etc..) immigrate to my country[1][2]. The fact that they're willing to pack up and move to a foreign country half way across the globe for the chance of finding work means they are already above average in their ambition & work-ethic. [1] ideally every country would implement freedom of immigr…

Why don't you think they will direct most of their talent in squeezing as much public funds as possible, working inofficially in criminal or semi-criminal activities. That's what people in Russia do without immigrating anywhere, and those able to immigrate will be probably more talented in this regard.

Do they do this because Russians are somehow genetically inclined to dishonesty? Or is it because the opportunities for honest work with a decent pay in Russia are a lot worse than in the west?

I postulate that even if the 1st generation immigrants might bring some cultural baggage with them, their children will mostly share the culture of their host country (modulo ethic cookery & speaking an extra language).

BTW we don't have to theorize anything, as the reason that there are so many Russians in Israel is that it was fairly easy for them to come here if they could prove they had some Jewish heritage (for many of which a very faint one, like one grandparent being a non-practicing Jew) & we don't see this doomsday scenario you predicted.

Re: Canada designs new visa for immigrant entrepreneurs

#40

Post by anovikov »

ido wrote: post #39
anovikov wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you think they will direct most of their talent in squeezing as much public funds as possible, working inofficially in criminal or semi-criminal activities. That's what people in Russia do without immigrating anywhere, and those able to immigrate will be probably more talented in this regard.

Do they do this because Russians are somehow genetically inclined to dishonesty? Or is it because the opportunities for honest work with a decent pay in Russia are a lot worse than in the west? I postulate that even if the 1st generation immigrants might bring some cultural baggage with them, their children will mostly share the culture of their host country (modulo ethic cookery & speaking an extra language). BTW we…

Israel does not have choice: it is a Jewish country and it has to invite Jews, not someone else. There are not so many Jews in the world to filter them (and the better kinds of them are probably well-off enough in their current countries to repatriate).

America has choice on the other hand: lots of people want to get there, and you can't take all of them even if yo wish. Why don't filter? That is even more true about Canada.

Post reply on HN