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Toyota is recycling old EV batteries to help power Mazda's production line

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31–40 of 142 posts

Re: Toyota is recycling old EV batteries to help power Mazda's production line

#31
post #28

Those who TL;DRd - it's for the factory, not the cars! Old EV batteries are great for energy storage. A worse weight-to-capacity ratio doesn't matter for batteries sitting on the ground. A battery that holds only 70% of its original capacity is considered worn-out for EVs (and even replaced under warranty), but grid storage isn't driving anywhere, so any capacity left is still useful.

At the cell level they don’t degrade linearly. First it’s slow then it’s fast and then it’s abrupt collapse. You probably have noticed that yourself with old devices. Some do not hold charge even for a minute. With battery packs probably you can do some smart things to make the degradation curve look more linear, but again there is only so much you can do.

Sudden failure in a big battery like these is usually due to a single cell failing, which can usually be replaced and then the battery pack is back to the 70% capacity or whatever. Probably in this context of scale it's worth doing the work of replacing bad cells.

Re: Toyota is recycling old EV batteries to help power Mazda's production line

#32
post #4

Neat idea to mix batteries of different age and chemistries. I've wondered why EVs couldn't do that too with some power electronics and SW. If an EV battery could have multiple such modules, it'd: 1) Make it easier to carry a cheaper lighter less-natural-resources-consuming battery most of the time. Go to some "gas station" to rent and add more modules when taking a road trip 2) Make it cheaper to replace the 1 modul…

CATL announced a dual-power battery pack recently.

https://technode.com/2025/04/22/catl-says-its-next-gen-dual-...

Re: Toyota is recycling old EV batteries to help power Mazda's production line

#33
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

actually if you can get a late-1990-ish 90-100cc 2T japanese scooter like Honda Lead 90 or Suzuki Address 100, or even later Yamaha Neos / MBK Ovetto 100cc of 2005-ish vintage this whole discussion about ranges and fuel consumptions becomes pointless. because those have had fuel consumption of like 2-3L per 100km. with fuel tanks of about 6L you had all the range for errands you could possibly need. and they were cap…

Small 2-stroke engines tend to be worse for pollution emissions (NOx, particulates) despite generally good fuel efficiency.

well, yes, I like the smell of 2T exhaust in the morning.

still, even my yamaha majesty 250 of 1992 (4HC-edit) only ate 3.5L/100km despite hauling thrice the mass of that same ovetto.

Re: Toyota is recycling old EV batteries to help power Mazda's production line

#34
If you’re ever in Hiroshima I can recommend a trip to the Mazda museum (Cosmo! 787B!), which includes a factory visit across a raised gantry. It’s free, but you need to book in advance: https://www.mazda.com/en/experience/museum/

Re: Toyota is recycling old EV batteries to help power Mazda's production line

#35

If you’re ever in Hiroshima I can recommend a trip to the Mazda museum (Cosmo! 787B!), which includes a factory visit across a raised gantry. It’s free, but you need to book in advance: https://www.mazda.com/en/experience/museum/

I saw that 787B at the Adelaide motorsport festival, MAN that thing makes an incredible noise!!!

Re: Toyota is recycling old EV batteries to help power Mazda's production line

#36
post #28

Those who TL;DRd - it's for the factory, not the cars! Old EV batteries are great for energy storage. A worse weight-to-capacity ratio doesn't matter for batteries sitting on the ground. A battery that holds only 70% of its original capacity is considered worn-out for EVs (and even replaced under warranty), but grid storage isn't driving anywhere, so any capacity left is still useful.

At the cell level they don’t degrade linearly. First it’s slow then it’s fast and then it’s abrupt collapse. You probably have noticed that yourself with old devices. Some do not hold charge even for a minute. With battery packs probably you can do some smart things to make the degradation curve look more linear, but again there is only so much you can do.

There’s quite a lot you can do when you can isolate and deactivate individual cells, big battery packs like this really do not fall off a cliff in the same way you’re describing.

Re: Toyota is recycling old EV batteries to help power Mazda's production line

#37
post #28

Those who TL;DRd - it's for the factory, not the cars! Old EV batteries are great for energy storage. A worse weight-to-capacity ratio doesn't matter for batteries sitting on the ground. A battery that holds only 70% of its original capacity is considered worn-out for EVs (and even replaced under warranty), but grid storage isn't driving anywhere, so any capacity left is still useful.

this is like picking up unfinished cigarette butts and making few finals puffs before burning your mouth.

worn-out batteries can swell and fail spectacularly, with fireworks

Re: Toyota is recycling old EV batteries to help power Mazda's production line

#38
post #35

If you’re ever in Hiroshima I can recommend a trip to the Mazda museum (Cosmo! 787B!), which includes a factory visit across a raised gantry. It’s free, but you need to book in advance: https://www.mazda.com/en/experience/museum/

I saw that 787B at the Adelaide motorsport festival, MAN that thing makes an incredible noise!!!

Also an iconic paint job. Mazda UK did a special edition MX-5 with a turbo and that paint to celebrate the Le Mans win: https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features-heroes/ph-heroe...

Re: Toyota is recycling old EV batteries to help power Mazda's production line

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota also owns Daihatsu, which is a lesser known name in the US, but is a major maker of kei cars, which are huge in Japan and other parts of Asia. They also own Denso, which is the second largest auto parts company. And they partner with Subaru on some things, such as the Subaru BRZ and Toyota GR86, which are basically the same car with different badging.

Toyota owns a de facto controlling stake in Subaru (~20%). Due to typical Japanese corporation by-laws, it only takes 33% share ownership for uncontested control of a corporation, and >50% of 33% means they'll never lose a vote for simple majority matters, which is basically everything except selling or dissolving the company. The 20% threshold is for a guaranteed seat on the board, which lets them put issues up for…

> Due to typical Japanese corporation by-laws, it only takes 33% share ownership for uncontested control of a corporation

It doesn’t make any sense.

Re: Toyota is recycling old EV batteries to help power Mazda's production line

#40
post #2

had to check: toyota owns 5% of mazda which makes them the largest shareholder.

TIL Mazda isn't a wholly owned subsidiary of Toyota. I thought it was, now I wonder where I got that from.

Ownership changes over time. At one time ford was in control. Which is why I checked - what toyota is doing makes no sense until you see current situations, now there is an obvious expected return on investment (if it works out of course- if it does they will do this to their own factories, if not they will write it off and not lose much.)
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