Disagree. The first example the author seem to want something more like imperative programming, so the "loop" construct would come first. But then the assignment should come last. With the python syntax you get the thing you're assigning first - near the equals sign - and then where it is selected from and with any filtering criteria. It makes perfect sense. If you disagree that's fine, the whole post is an opinion piece.
Left to Right Programming
31–40 of 372 posts
Re: Left to Right Programming
#32Incidentally, Darklang had this built into the language/editor combo from the start. You can see it in the examples on our youtube, maybe this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQpBG9WkGus
To make a long story short, we added features for "incomplete" programs in the language and tools, so that your program was always valid and could not be invalid. It was a reasonable concept, and I think could have been a game changer if AI didn't first change the game.
Re: Left to Right Programming
#33[deleted]
Re: Left to Right Programming
#34> Programs should be valid as they are typed. That would be nice if devs always wrote code sequentially, i.e. left to right, one character at a time, one line at a time. But the reality is that we often jump around, filling in some things while leaving other things unfinished until we get back to them. Sometimes I'll write code that operates on a variable, then a minute later go back and declare that variable (perhap…
This is a "let 'im cook" instance.
Reading through the article, the author makes the argument for the philosophy of progressive disclosure. The last paragraph brings it together and it's a reasonable take:
> When you’ve typed text, the program is valid. When you’ve typed text.split(" "), the program is valid. When you’ve typed text.split(" ").map(word => word.length), the program is valid. Since the program is valid as you build it up, your editor is able to help you out. If you had a REPL, you could even see the result as you type your program out.
In the age of CoPilot and agent coders I'm not so sure how important the ergonomics still are, though I dare say coding an LSP would certainly make one happy with the argument.
Re: Left to Right Programming
#35Disagree. The first example the author seem to want something more like imperative programming, so the "loop" construct would come first. But then the assignment should come last. With the python syntax you get the thing you're assigning first - near the equals sign - and then where it is selected from and with any filtering criteria. It makes perfect sense. If you disagree that's fine, the whole post is an opinion p…
> the whole post is an opinion piece.
It's not. The author gives objective reasons why Python's syntax is inferior – namely, that it makes IDE support in the form of discoverability and auto-completion more difficult.
Re: Left to Right Programming
#36I'm curious on how much of this is basically overcome by the new tools? As much as vibe coding annoys me, I can't argue against how good autocomplete from these LLMs can be.
So far any "autocomplete" from an LLM has only served to insanely disrupt my screen with fourtey lines of irrelevant nonesense that cannot be turned off (the "don't suggest multiline autocompletes" option does not prevent LLM autocomplete from doing so) and has only served to be less useful than non-LLM based autocompletes were, which I was massively impressed with, because it was hyperlocal and didn't pretend that the niche code I'm writing is probably identical to whatever google or microsoft writes internally.
I've had some minor success with claude, but enabling the AI plugin in intellij has literally made my experience worse, even without using any AI interactions.
Re: Left to Right Programming
#37> Programs should be valid as they are typed. That would be nice if devs always wrote code sequentially, i.e. left to right, one character at a time, one line at a time. But the reality is that we often jump around, filling in some things while leaving other things unfinished until we get back to them. Sometimes I'll write code that operates on a variable, then a minute later go back and declare that variable (perhap…
Code gets written once and read dozens or hundreds of times. Code that can be read sequentially is faster and easier to read than code that requires jumping around.
Re: Left to Right Programming
#38Don’t know why python gets so much love. It’s a painful language as soon as more than one person is involved. What the author describes is just the tip of the iceberg
This hasn't been my experience, but we use the Google style guide, linters, and static type verification to cut down on the number of options for how to write the program. Python has definitely strayed from its "one right way to do a thing" roots, but in the set of languages I use regularly it gives about the same amount of issues as JavaScript (and far, far less than C++) regarding having to deal with quirks that vary from user to user.
Re: Left to Right Programming
#39SQL shows it's age by having exactly the same problem.
Queries should start by the `FROM` clause, that way which entities are involved can be quickly resolved and a smart editor can aid you in writing a sensible query faster.
The order should be FROM -> SELECT -> WHERE, since SELECT commonly gives names to columns, which WHERE will reference.
You could even avoid crap like `SELECT * FROM table`, and just write `FROM table` and have the select clause implied.
Never mind me, I'm just an old man with a grudge, I'll go back to my cave...
Re: Left to Right Programming
#40I don't think making your tools happy is a particularly valid reason to code in one style vs another.
If your tools are happy they can make you happy.