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Scapegoating the Algorithm

asteriskmag.com

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Re: Scapegoating the Algorithm

#31
post #19

How come the explanations offered for declining trust in media never seem to include the media demonstrably, provably getting things wrong in a way that logically ought to weaken trust?

That darn media, those scientists, and apolitical experts, oh don't get me talking about credible experts, all making mistakes! What is worse they admit it, even have systems for correcting errors publicly, so all those mistakes really get pushed in all our faces. Meanwhile the boutique/ideology/personality/opinion based media...

> What is worse they admit it, even have systems for correcting errors publicly

Errors, even lies, happen, but they are negligible compared to the most powerful tool of propaganda: cherrypicking. E.g. the otherwise thorough NYT reporting on air traffic controller shortages [1] entirely omitted the FAA diversity hiring scandal that disqualified applicants with top grades if they weren't diverse enough [2]. During COVID, the credible experts were happily making models of how many deaths a motorcycle rally caused [3], but when it came time to do the same for BLM, we instead got "Protest Is a Profound Public Health Intervention" [4]. This is not an outlier - social scientists have been turning a blind eye to results they dislike since at least 1985 [5].

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/02/business/air-traffic-cont...

[2] https://www.tracingwoodgrains.com/p/the-full-story-of-the-fa...

[3] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7753804/

[4] https://time.com/5848212/doctors-supporting-protests/

[5] The authors also submitted different test studies to different peer-review boards. The methodology was identical, and the variable was that the purported findings either went for, or against, the liberal worldview (for example, one found evidence of discrimination against minority groups, and another found evidence of "reverse discrimination" against straight white males). Despite equal methodological strengths, the studies that went against the liberal worldview were criticized and rejected, and those that went with it were not. - from https://theweek.com/articles/441474/how-academias-liberal-bi..., citing the study "Human subjects review, personal values, and the regulation of social science research.": https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1986-12806-001

Re: Scapegoating the Algorithm

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That darn media, those scientists, and apolitical experts, oh don't get me talking about credible experts, all making mistakes! What is worse they admit it, even have systems for correcting errors publicly, so all those mistakes really get pushed in all our faces. Meanwhile the boutique/ideology/personality/opinion based media...

> What is worse they admit it, even have systems for correcting errors publicly Errors, even lies, happen, but they are negligible compared to the most powerful tool of propaganda: cherrypicking. E.g. the otherwise thorough NYT reporting on air traffic controller shortages [1] entirely omitted the FAA diversity hiring scandal that disqualified applicants with top grades if they weren't diverse enough [2]. During COVI…

Are you under the assumption that this is new?

A few cherry-picked examples seems like a really weird way to try and prove cherry-picking is happening, much less establish "cherry picking has become worse since a certain date"

Re: Scapegoating the Algorithm

#33

Author is Associate Fellow at the Leverhulme Centre for the Future of Intelligence (CFI), https://www.lcfi.ac.uk/about > Our research is dedicated to ensuring AI is a force for good and it’s structured in a series of research programmes that cover a wide range of projects. Our work explores vital questions about the risks and opportunities emerging with AI in the near, mid- and long-term. These range from algorithmic…

Thanks for the context.

The meat of their argument, in my opinion, relies on this:

> Nevertheless, it is noteworthy that the balance of empirical evidence in this area does not support the claim that social media use has a large impact on users’ political attitudes and behavior.

One such study they provide as a strong representative of the empirical evidence was by researchers collaborating with Meta where they did an RCT to test whether reverse-chronological vs ml algorithm feeds resulted int different political beliefs. I haven't looked into the study, but on its face that's an insanely stupid design; if my youtube feed became only reverse chronological one day I'd just open a different app after 40 seconds.

Content platforms' main product is their behavior-modulating feeds, their ability to hold your eyes for 4 hours a day. The idea that this wouldn't be effecting our politics is insane.

Re: Scapegoating the Algorithm

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That darn media, those scientists, and apolitical experts, oh don't get me talking about credible experts, all making mistakes! What is worse they admit it, even have systems for correcting errors publicly, so all those mistakes really get pushed in all our faces. Meanwhile the boutique/ideology/personality/opinion based media...

> What is worse they admit it, even have systems for correcting errors publicly Errors, even lies, happen, but they are negligible compared to the most powerful tool of propaganda: cherrypicking. E.g. the otherwise thorough NYT reporting on air traffic controller shortages [1] entirely omitted the FAA diversity hiring scandal that disqualified applicants with top grades if they weren't diverse enough [2]. During COVI…

I agree, the "mainstream media", if that is what we are talking about, is far from perfect.

But I don't think it has ever been without the issues you describe.

The best solution has always been to combine several (or more) of the best overall sources - despite, and with familiarity of, their individual bents/limitations.

The "mainstream" media is still dramatically better than the "alternative" crowd. Whose followers are ironically uncritical, despite generally being more problematic.

Re: Scapegoating the Algorithm

#35

America has been in a class war since the beginning. It just refuses to call it that. Yet each time it plays out on the battlefield of truth: who gets to decide what's real? Each era has its own aristocracy - who produces knowledge, and clergy disseminating knowledge and legitimizing who gets to produce it. Phase One: 1770s The fight was colonial gentry vs. hereditary nobility. Knowledge still lived with the elite, b…

Too many unfounded assumptions

> Let's face it, putting the genie back in the bottle isn't an option.

The genie might be where it's always been, just a few new smokes and mirrors added for laughs and giggles.

> Either we reconstitute the aristocracy under a new, still-undefined regime or we solve the class problem so there's no aristocracy left to legitimize.

"We" being like who? And "aristocracy" is who?

You lost me at Phase 3 because scientists, engineers, policy wonks don't fit any definition of aristocracy. Phase 4 didn't offer new candidates for coronation, so what gives? Are you fomenting a revolution against said scientists, engineers and policy wonks? That's curious to put it mildly.

Re: Scapegoating the Algorithm

#36
This is now a genre of article that repeats everywhere. Its form is:

"X percent of Americans agree with the statement 'vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases they prevent', which shows America has completely lost the ability to agree on basic facts, everyone is living in a different reality, and this explains why they will not agree with the following specific correct views: [...]."

The reader is positioned such that if he does not agree with the specific "rational" views enumerated, he feels himself included in a group believing specific other, "irrational" things stated as the basic problem. The article becomes an instance of the problem it attempts to locate.

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