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Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

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Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#31

Post by admdly »

Weethet wrote: post #5
paul-tharun wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MXRoute has been trying from ages to get push notifications on the IOS mail app but were getting ignored. FastMail got access to it and it is not clear how, without any public announcement or documentation. It is as if Apple just picked a favorite and went with it.

FastMail is using JMAP, a protocol designed to support push notifications. MXRoute is stuck with SMTP/IMAP which don't support those. There might be a different reason, but I think this is probably the core issue here

I think saying they are stuck with standard email protocols is a bit of a stretch. JMAP is not widely implemented outside of Fastmail and certainly isn’t used by Apple Mail, which actually uses a proprietary IMAP extension (XAPPLEPUSHSERVICE).

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#32

Post by jarland »

Weethet wrote: post #5
paul-tharun wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MXRoute has been trying from ages to get push notifications on the IOS mail app but were getting ignored. FastMail got access to it and it is not clear how, without any public announcement or documentation. It is as if Apple just picked a favorite and went with it.

FastMail is using JMAP, a protocol designed to support push notifications. MXRoute is stuck with SMTP/IMAP which don't support those. There might be a different reason, but I think this is probably the core issue here

The stock iOS Mail app does not support JMAP and therefore it has no relation to Push notifications for the stock iOS Mail app.

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#33

Post by jarland »

yohannparis wrote: post #12

Or maybe... FastMail created JMAP, ergo they are the one with the best implementation. Now Apple is working on moving iCloud to JMAP, and are working with FastMail as a JMAP production level service within mail.app.

The stock Mail app for iOS does not support JMAP.

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#34

Post by jarland »

fluidcruft wrote: post #28
admdly wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn’t a skill issue at play here - it’s that Apple have closed the previously unofficial route others have been using (including MXRoute), which has brought the issue to a head. There’s some discussion on the Apple developer forums - https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/778671 .

That linked topic says Apple is working with the developer to handle it. I don't see any evidence of favoritism. Fastmail clearly reached out to Apple eons ago, which is evidence of skill on fastmail's part and not favortism on Apple's part. Admittedly, fastmail very likely has lots of contacts in Apple (Jeremy Howard isn't nobody), but that's also a skill issue.

Having friends inside of Apple that provide you with something no one else can obtain is a fairly decent definition of favoritism.

You cannot send Push notifications to the stock iOS Mail app no matter how hard you try. They can. There are functions inside of iOS that are made better because of this (auto copied 2FA codes, for example).

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#35

Post by frizlab »

MrDarcy wrote: post #23

I’ve been hearing a lot of good things about Fastmail. Time to try them out.

I am a happy subscriber since a long time ago (10 years, I think?). They are amazing. The job is done and there is nothing else in the way.

This and Kagi are my top subscriptions recommendations.

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#36

Post by fluidcruft »

admdly wrote: post #30
fluidcruft wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That linked topic says Apple is working with the developer to handle it. I don't see any evidence of favoritism. Fastmail clearly reached out to Apple eons ago, which is evidence of skill on fastmail's part and not favortism on Apple's part. Admittedly, fastmail very likely has lots of contacts in Apple (Jeremy Howard isn't nobody), but that's also a skill issue.

Of the many email hosts out there, only a handful receiving special treatment with no route for others to even request the same is special treatment. In the case of Fastmail, they’ve had this access since 2015. It’s also very interesting that Apple reached out to the user in the developer forum thread after they raised it as an EU DMA issue.

Why can't MXroute do exactly the same thing? Did they open a ticket?

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#37

Post by fluidcruft »

jarland wrote: post #34
fluidcruft wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That linked topic says Apple is working with the developer to handle it. I don't see any evidence of favoritism. Fastmail clearly reached out to Apple eons ago, which is evidence of skill on fastmail's part and not favortism on Apple's part. Admittedly, fastmail very likely has lots of contacts in Apple (Jeremy Howard isn't nobody), but that's also a skill issue.

Having friends inside of Apple that provide you with something no one else can obtain is a fairly decent definition of favoritism. You cannot send Push notifications to the stock iOS Mail app no matter how hard you try. They can. There are functions inside of iOS that are made better because of this (auto copied 2FA codes, for example).

There's no evidence "nobody else can obtain" it. The parent's link to the Apple developer forum shows somebody else obtaining it. There's no evidence that MXroute couldn't do the same.

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#38

Post by jarland »

fluidcruft wrote: post #37
jarland wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having friends inside of Apple that provide you with something no one else can obtain is a fairly decent definition of favoritism. You cannot send Push notifications to the stock iOS Mail app no matter how hard you try. They can. There are functions inside of iOS that are made better because of this (auto copied 2FA codes, for example).

There's no evidence "nobody else can obtain" it. The parent's link to the Apple developer forum shows somebody else obtaining it. There's no evidence that MXroute couldn't do the same.

There is no defined process for obtaining it. If you'd like to tear down that statement into little pieces and dissect it, I recommend getting a new hobby because it's not that interesting.

MXroute doesn't go around threatening US companies with EU law from Texas. As for your requirement for evidence, this situation does not require your approval unless you work for Apple and can offer some help in the matter. The tweet you are critiquing is me (owner of MXroute) attempting to gain Apple's attention to get what Fastmail and that EU user have obtained. I'll continue doing what I'm doing, if that's alright with you. I'm well aware of the situation and what others have done. What I need at this point is eyes on the prize. I'll get what I'm after, but a public statement that I currently cannot get what I'm after is entirely appropriate for the avenue I've chosen to do so.

It's a mistake to assume that I'm merely flailing my arms chaotically and generically playing the role of Karen.

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#39

Post by jarland »

fluidcruft wrote: post #36
admdly wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the many email hosts out there, only a handful receiving special treatment with no route for others to even request the same is special treatment. In the case of Fastmail, they’ve had this access since 2015. It’s also very interesting that Apple reached out to the user in the developer forum thread after they raised it as an EU DMA issue.

Why can't MXroute do exactly the same thing? Did they open a ticket?

No, I went straight to trying to shame them on Twitter. The part where I said "We’ve tried to talk. @Apple just stops responding once they realize what we’re asking" was just a joke, you got me.

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#40

Post by fluidcruft »

jarland wrote: post #38
fluidcruft wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no evidence "nobody else can obtain" it. The parent's link to the Apple developer forum shows somebody else obtaining it. There's no evidence that MXroute couldn't do the same.

There is no defined process for obtaining it. If you'd like to tear down that statement into little pieces and dissect it, I recommend getting a new hobby because it's not that interesting. MXroute doesn't go around threatening US companies with EU law from Texas. As for your requirement for evidence, this situation does not require your approval unless you work for Apple and can offer some help in the matter. The tw…

Why would you expect a defined process? It's proprietary software on a closed platform.

I'll just take your word for it that there's no ways for Texans to get the same treatment as these other companies. Oh well. Take it up with your legislature, I guess.

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